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Sign up with Google Sign up with FacebookQ: Would you take this offer?
So I applied for teaching jobs in a number of Guangzhou universities. Unlike most cities I've been to, I can actually tolerate GZ, so I set my sights on it. One of the unis, quite highly ranked, replied a few days later saying they had a position and in fact wanted to offer me a position straight away - without so much as an interview. I couldn't believe my luck although the lack of interview seemed odd.
I sent on the requested documents and started to gradually get more details on the job as I asked various questions. Pay is 11,000 incl. accommodation assistance of a measly 1,000. No medical insurance - this is the first college I've seen that doesn't offer it . No accommodation provided, have to find it myself, "a student can help you". The college has 12 detailed reasons to cancel my contract, I get 2 vague ones. Need to teach on two campuses, she tells me, but the contract mentions three.
The first college (and place) I worked at in China was a crappy private place that I accepted because I didn't know any better. Yet even they provided some medical coverage and gave me accommodation on campus or assistance if I lived off campus. And even they wanted an interview.
However, this uni in Guangzhou is in the top 10 ranking in China. It would look good on my CV and Chinese friends tell me to take the job straight away - they would, regardless of the Ts and Cs. It could be a great opportunity to develop my career... and a great opportunity to be screwed over, based on the details they're giving me.
What would you do? I'm really in two minds over this.
6 years 45 weeks ago in Business & Jobs - China
hehe,,, sorry, you are being scammed. See,, a real deal following real contract law is required to provide health insurance. hehe,,that's just a basic here. Government wont allow otherwise. Sorry,,, but china is china,,, gotta be careful.
RandallFlagg:
Hmmm...
http://middlekingdomlife.com/guide/travel-medical-benefits.htm
Despite popular belief to the contrary, employers of foreign experts in China—SAFEA approved or otherwise—are not required to provide their foreign teachers with healthcare benefits. As a rule, if any healthcare benefits do exist, they are limited to accidental injury insurance only. According to the State Administration of Foreign Experts Affairs (SAFEA):
RandallFlagg:
But in general I agree that this all sounds dodgy. I'm wavering now and considering another college in GZ which is lower tier and pay but offers the normal benefits (medical, flights, apartment) and has been more forthcoming with information.
dom87:
health care is not required by law...
I am not a teacher, but my company previously also didn't offer and extra insurance...
I could decide to pay the insurance with the social taxes etc. but it is voluntary, so I pocket 2000 RMB per month more and I requested an expat international healthcare anyways
Which part of Guangzhou. All big cities in China look nice downtown. But even Shanghai and Beijing look like the 3rd world when you get 40 km from downtown. And yes, you can live comfortably in Guangzhou on 11,000 rmb per month if you are 20 km from downtown and your housing (with utilities) is covered. Most schools in China are trying to pay as little as possible these days. Most of the schools officials don't know the laws themselves. They are more concerned with profit. If you are in a university then you really don't have to much to worry about. It's the training schools and the recruiters who will do the underground stuff. Ask yourself who is paying you. I get the feeling a recruiter has hired you because the me insurance is not part of said contract.
RandallFlagg:
Oddly, I think (emphasis on that word - I'm not sure) that I would be directly hired by the uni, as I applied by finding the email address on the actual uni website. I didn't contact any third party recruiter or agency to get into contact with them. The sample contract they sent me said I'd be hired by the School of Foreign Languages. So I'm wondering if this is really a "scam"... or if they're actually legit but just offering fairly crap conditions.
Sounds like a pretty bad contract... I had something similar in Changchun a few years back and only did it because the limited working hours gave me plenty of time to pursue well paying private tutoring gigs. With such meager pay I'd check to see how they feel about moonlighting. In my uni gig I had to sign a contract promising no moonlighting but my boss was the one helping me find more moonlighting gigs.
If you are talking about Zhongshan University, the university is located next to one of the most expensive stretch of land in Guangzhou. There is a whole bunch of so-called luxurious monster houses in that area. Zhongshan U is the best uni. in south china, few locals would argue with you about that. I like the abundance of trees in their campus, and grass.
Personally, I prefer Zhongshan U over Beida (Peking University) or Tsinghua. They do get the best and brightest kids in the region and it is a pleasure to teach bright minds like those. They are not zombies.
The uni has a strong science research faculty, and the people (the real locals, ie not those mandarin speaking influx from other provinces looking for a buck) are significantly more mature, more aware of the outside world (they had been sticking up 3 floors high antenna up the sky, illegally, tapping into HK's TV signals since the 197Os), speak Cantonese (same as HKers), reading smuggled in books and megazines from their HK relatives, have a lot less hubris than the big mouth, arrogant Shanghainese, who basically everyone in china (other than themselves) hate.
There is something wrong with this offer, something those making the offer are keeping from you. It can be a budget thing, it can be corruption among low lives who are pocketing your money. Ideally, someone on this forum who knows expat teachers working there, maybe in other faculties can help out by telling what their packages are like. Easiest way is to go there, walk around the campus, look for a western face, establish contact. Also search expat websites in Guangzhou which I am sure exist in tons.
RandallFlagg:
Yes, that's the one. Thanks for the info, food for thought.
the payment is pooop
GZ is a first tier city and downtown apartments are 5k+ rent per month (livable apartments).
11k is fine if the provide a decent apartment, otherwise not so much.
The interview thing sounds pretty dodgy but maybe they are just desperate or don't give a shit and just want a face monkey?
On the other hands, everyone pretty much know how useless interviews are by chinese. They ask you some questions and they mostly can't even understand the answer and hire you just because of the passport and maybe some working experience
RandallFlagg:
5k+ for a flat... scary. When I first started teaching in China my entire monthly salary was 5k...
I would have to review the entire contract before making a judgement call. 11,000 rmb is good uni pay, but they should be offering you housing or an allotment. Also, I agree that the school does not have to offer you health insurance, but they do need to provide employee accident insurance. It sounds like a start up company trying to hire teachers for schools and keeping them as their own employees, while contracting your teaching services out to the school. Basically, you are an employee of the hiring company and not of the university. I have worked for these kinds of companies (currently doing so) and it can be a gamble. Not only do you have to follow their rules and contract obligations, you are normally required to follow the school's as well. If this is a start-up company with little or no experience in the field, the owners are going to make huge mistakes and try to take advantage of their employees for maximum gain. If it an established company, they may have learned how to do things correctly and learned how to work with foreigners. I recommend being overly cautious. Go with your gut feeling. With so many opportunities available in China currently, place yourself in the driver's seat and demand the best deal for yourself.
You didn't mention working hours, under 14/12 then it's ok. Especially if they handle the visa
Englteachted:
Dude, did you ask what if you're teaching 14 hours? That sounds like a scam. In the contract they'll say you'll be paid high salary for teaching 16-18 but they'll give you 12 hours then pay you 5000.
icnif77:
Working hours or working classes?
One must make clear distinction at reading of the Contract '14-16 hours' = '18 1/2 - 20 1/2 classes (45')', especially before inking the paper.