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Q: Would you like your home country to adopt a Chinese style immigration policy?

We all know and understand Chinese immigaration. That is, technically there is not one.  China works on "right of blood" when it comes to citizenship.

 

Now, this is not a question about us being guests here etc.  It's more a question about if China has the right system, and other countries have got it wrong.

 

And lets be clear, the Chinese law as much applies to natural born Chinese. If they go abroad and gain another citizenship, they are effectively stripped of Chinese nationality. This even applies to their kids born abroad.

 

So, would you like to see the Chinese system introduced into your home country?

 

Is the Chinese system better?

8 years 40 weeks ago in  General  - China

 
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Shifu

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For the uk it's probably too late to make much difference. But if we went back 60 years do you think the policy makers would think its a good idea to let lots of people migrate en masse to a country with a culture far removed from their own, who come from countries endemic with terrorism, religious extremism, social and sexual problems. They would say hell no that would be stupid, let's only have people from cultures conducive to integration with the host culture. The amount that the uk has to spend on anti terrorism because it allowed this immigration, is staggering. The military is recruiting 3000 new MOD police officers per year to protect nuclear facilities against the threat of domestic terror plots. They are increasing special force assets around the  country ten fold in order to ensure safety. All this money could have been spent on schools. In London the host culture has dissipated and London is 44 percent white. I don't think this is right. Would these countries immigrants are from like their capitals transformed like this. It's weird and creepy they don't see their own countries as good enough to try and develop rather than just immigrate to white countries. White countries are the only countries that are subjected to immigration on masse. 

 

If China maintains its current immigration policy and never allows immigration to exceed 7 percent it will have a major advantage over Western countries and will be able to safeguard history and culture. Allow immigration as it helps with the injection of a wider view and new ideas. It's a good thing, just not en masse.

 

 

 

ScotsAlan:

But you cant deny Western nations spend a lot of money on bombing nations that people are trying to escape from. Do you include refugeess as migrants? If so, western nations are far from hosting the largest number of displaced people.

8 years 40 weeks ago
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dokken:

It's a sadomasochistic argument to say the west is responsible for terrorism. It's like a bully punching you in the face then convincing you it was your fault and what not to do in future. Uk was stupid in interfering with Iran trying to keep a hold of the oil. Iraq was a dreadful mistake I agreed with at the time. I like bush, thought it would be a good idea to try to set up a democracy in Iraq. This would have a domino effect creating new democracies in the Middle East. Democracy would destroy terrorism. We were both stupid. But in most cases the west has had to respond to a region of the world that just has endless problems. Can't ignore oil rich countries as we all need oil to live.

 

with most terrorists it isn't about historical injustices. It's about your own culture religion not dominating the world. They are facists. We be allowed a minority(but significant unmanageablE expensive number oF them) to set up camp in the uk

8 years 40 weeks ago
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Hotwater:

Disagree with you Dokken. Most of the Middle East was relatively stable until Bush & Blair messed up Iraq. Since then the whole region has gone downhill. 

8 years 40 weeks ago
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thefidu881:

Calling it a dreadful mistake and leaving it on herself isn't the solution dokken. To you it might not be about historical injustices but for those who have lost their relatives its more like 'kill or get killed' situation. I do agree with you that majority of the terrorists are manipulative ragheads and in this race they don't spare anyone, muslims Christians or whoever they find weaker. Another alarming situation towards the issue of terrorism is the classification of terrorism based on religious or racial grounds. For instance the idiot who killed 9 black Christians while clearly saying that he wants a racial war in the US is presented as lone wolf at mainstream media but the Boston bombers are related to Islam which creates fault lines in fighting terrorists. As far I know Pakistan was having a hard time dealing with terrorists until last year when they killed school kids and the military went completely straight. Political leaders forced to pass bills to treat terrorists as terrorists only. Just within 6 months Pakistan has got to top of the list of countries with decreasing terror attacks. Terrorism is terrorism whether a government go on bombing people for having oil or individuals trying to manipulate their beliefs over others. You cannot say Al Qaeda was great when it was fighting USSR and gone bad when they blew twin towers.

8 years 40 weeks ago
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dokken:

The USSR invaded Afghanistan. There was an argument for helping Afghans and other foreign muslims who went to their aid. That was the historical context. If time could be turned back I doubt the US would help Sunni extremists fighting the USSR. 

 

The man in the church shootings was a lone wolf. The boston bombers were influenced by lectures by a famous cleric and extremists in fromer USSR republics one of them visited.

 

The size and scale of terrorism by non muslims pales in significance to Islamic extremists. The number of countries it crosses, the number of muslims involved and those that condone extremism openly or silently is vast, even if it is a minority. Boko Harem, Somalia, ISIS, head choppings, hand amputations, export of terrorism, genital mutilation, underage weddings, stoning, I don't think its a surprise that they are all of the one religion. Islam is in a bad need of some kind of reformation.

 

Full respect to the pakistani military for taking the fight to extremists. Bravery of the soldiers and the entire pakistani military is to be admired. \but you don't seriously believe they ve gone straight. next you ll be telling me the ISI never supported terrorism. They ve always been completely infiltrated by extremists simply because the number of people in pakistan who share these views is enormous.A sizeable minority. More holes than a teabag.

 

8 years 40 weeks ago
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thefidu881:

How do you reach to the conclusion that the shooter was lone wolf? He is manipulated by white superamacy and as per definition of terrorism he qulifies fully to be tried as a terrorist since he wants to terrorize black people. THAT is plain hypocracy. The US should have taken on USSR directly instead of bringing in people from Middle East or Central Asia to fight the war if US thought it was her moral duty. This whole idea of terrorism was breeding on that treatment of US towards Al Qaeda and the Taliban. ISI supported 'Mujahidin' as you said to defeat push back USSR with the money of Arabs and equipments of US. Once USSR was pushed, the phantom of Taliban was beyond control and the US was far off safer to cut or oppose Taliban while ISI was at front door. Do you think these agencies are stupid to go straight against highly trained gorilla fighters if they are within the reach of war zone? ISI did and have to deal Osama or AL Qaeda from a safe distance to avoid the full scale invasion of Pakistan by Taliban. Do you know how many Pakistani lives are taken only because Pakistan allied with the US against Taliban post 9/11? 75000 so far that mainly includecommon people being killed in reteliation of Taliban for not opposing Pakistani government on the'war on terror' policy.

8 years 40 weeks ago
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thefidu881:

You are right to suggest that Muslims need to overhaul their beliefs and practices but it seems pretty messed up to me now. Just as a common muslim one thing is clear to me that Allah is creator and there is a judgement day where every individual will answer the deeds he committed. That being said I am no one to take anyone's life or judge him based on my beliefs. Allah knows and he knows what happens on judgement day. Its pretty simple to understand and it is something that keeps me away from judging people.

8 years 40 weeks ago
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ScotsAlan:

Black shooter: racist supremist.

 

Brown shooter: Terrorist.

 

White shooter: Mentaly ill.

 

The first two are evil, to be destroyed.  The third one, to be looked after in a hospital.

 

The right wing is full of hypocracy.  But this suits the people who make the guns.

 

There was a study come out last week about terrorist/ race hate deaths in the US since 9-11. No way I can find a link here in China without a VPN,  I think it was 38 caused by white supremicists, 26 caused by non white terrorists. Including the Boston Bombers.  Well, the white on non white just went up 9.

 

Billions of dollars are spent on hunting the non white terrorists, apparently there is a department of 1 guy who tries to identify the white terror guys.

 

Honestly, if you applied the definition of fundamdlisim across all religions, as people apply it to Islam, the Pope would be top of the hit list.

 

Can't wear condoms !!!!... feck.... this guy is mad.

8 years 40 weeks ago
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8 years 40 weeks ago
 
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If you compare Chinese 'one child policy' with 'no immigration to China', it makes sense to me.

 

There're too many of them already. Why they would import some foreign temporary workers, who would then stay here permanently?

 

On the other side, EU residents are getting older, and seeking for fresh, younger tax payers from abroad.

I'm just following Greek-exit (and Putin-ski 'hand-loan-shake') at the moment in EU. 

Smallest EU countries have the same non-dual citizenship rule: 'if you apply for other citizenship, you'll lose your birth right citizenship'.

P.S.

I had a glance at users currently online: 'ScotsAlan, strawberry and icnif'. Do you think, she's after you? O2, o2

ScotsAlan:

Ha ha icniff. I suspect Vicky forgot to log out as she whizzes around New York. I hope she got a US sim card... hate to think what her roaming charge will be.

 

Anyway, so you think immigration policy should be set on a country by country basis. Fair point, but that's not really how it happens. I think.

 

I did once lean towards it being reciprical. That is, you don't let our people in, we don't let your people in.  Would that work...nope. Human rights come into play. A country can't deny a person of human rights because of what country they come from.

 

Personally, I hate borders. But borders are there. We can't change them.

 

 

8 years 40 weeks ago
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8 years 40 weeks ago
 
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Well, to make it harder for immigrants to come to my country... then yes. Fair is fair. But overall, it kind of just sucks. China is just too xenophobic and the government is too afraid of trying to cater to both the uneducated farmers and to foreigners.

 

Although, the "Chinese can only hold Chinese passports and Chinese nationality thing". Nah, I don't prefer that.

 

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8 years 40 weeks ago
 
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Shifu

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For the uk it's probably too late to make much difference. But if we went back 60 years do you think the policy makers would think its a good idea to let lots of people migrate en masse to a country with a culture far removed from their own, who come from countries endemic with terrorism, religious extremism, social and sexual problems. They would say hell no that would be stupid, let's only have people from cultures conducive to integration with the host culture. The amount that the uk has to spend on anti terrorism because it allowed this immigration, is staggering. The military is recruiting 3000 new MOD police officers per year to protect nuclear facilities against the threat of domestic terror plots. They are increasing special force assets around the  country ten fold in order to ensure safety. All this money could have been spent on schools. In London the host culture has dissipated and London is 44 percent white. I don't think this is right. Would these countries immigrants are from like their capitals transformed like this. It's weird and creepy they don't see their own countries as good enough to try and develop rather than just immigrate to white countries. White countries are the only countries that are subjected to immigration on masse. 

 

If China maintains its current immigration policy and never allows immigration to exceed 7 percent it will have a major advantage over Western countries and will be able to safeguard history and culture. Allow immigration as it helps with the injection of a wider view and new ideas. It's a good thing, just not en masse.

 

 

 

ScotsAlan:

But you cant deny Western nations spend a lot of money on bombing nations that people are trying to escape from. Do you include refugeess as migrants? If so, western nations are far from hosting the largest number of displaced people.

8 years 40 weeks ago
Report Abuse

dokken:

It's a sadomasochistic argument to say the west is responsible for terrorism. It's like a bully punching you in the face then convincing you it was your fault and what not to do in future. Uk was stupid in interfering with Iran trying to keep a hold of the oil. Iraq was a dreadful mistake I agreed with at the time. I like bush, thought it would be a good idea to try to set up a democracy in Iraq. This would have a domino effect creating new democracies in the Middle East. Democracy would destroy terrorism. We were both stupid. But in most cases the west has had to respond to a region of the world that just has endless problems. Can't ignore oil rich countries as we all need oil to live.

 

with most terrorists it isn't about historical injustices. It's about your own culture religion not dominating the world. They are facists. We be allowed a minority(but significant unmanageablE expensive number oF them) to set up camp in the uk

8 years 40 weeks ago
Report Abuse

Hotwater:

Disagree with you Dokken. Most of the Middle East was relatively stable until Bush & Blair messed up Iraq. Since then the whole region has gone downhill. 

8 years 40 weeks ago
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thefidu881:

Calling it a dreadful mistake and leaving it on herself isn't the solution dokken. To you it might not be about historical injustices but for those who have lost their relatives its more like 'kill or get killed' situation. I do agree with you that majority of the terrorists are manipulative ragheads and in this race they don't spare anyone, muslims Christians or whoever they find weaker. Another alarming situation towards the issue of terrorism is the classification of terrorism based on religious or racial grounds. For instance the idiot who killed 9 black Christians while clearly saying that he wants a racial war in the US is presented as lone wolf at mainstream media but the Boston bombers are related to Islam which creates fault lines in fighting terrorists. As far I know Pakistan was having a hard time dealing with terrorists until last year when they killed school kids and the military went completely straight. Political leaders forced to pass bills to treat terrorists as terrorists only. Just within 6 months Pakistan has got to top of the list of countries with decreasing terror attacks. Terrorism is terrorism whether a government go on bombing people for having oil or individuals trying to manipulate their beliefs over others. You cannot say Al Qaeda was great when it was fighting USSR and gone bad when they blew twin towers.

8 years 40 weeks ago
Report Abuse

dokken:

The USSR invaded Afghanistan. There was an argument for helping Afghans and other foreign muslims who went to their aid. That was the historical context. If time could be turned back I doubt the US would help Sunni extremists fighting the USSR. 

 

The man in the church shootings was a lone wolf. The boston bombers were influenced by lectures by a famous cleric and extremists in fromer USSR republics one of them visited.

 

The size and scale of terrorism by non muslims pales in significance to Islamic extremists. The number of countries it crosses, the number of muslims involved and those that condone extremism openly or silently is vast, even if it is a minority. Boko Harem, Somalia, ISIS, head choppings, hand amputations, export of terrorism, genital mutilation, underage weddings, stoning, I don't think its a surprise that they are all of the one religion. Islam is in a bad need of some kind of reformation.

 

Full respect to the pakistani military for taking the fight to extremists. Bravery of the soldiers and the entire pakistani military is to be admired. \but you don't seriously believe they ve gone straight. next you ll be telling me the ISI never supported terrorism. They ve always been completely infiltrated by extremists simply because the number of people in pakistan who share these views is enormous.A sizeable minority. More holes than a teabag.

 

8 years 40 weeks ago
Report Abuse

thefidu881:

How do you reach to the conclusion that the shooter was lone wolf? He is manipulated by white superamacy and as per definition of terrorism he qulifies fully to be tried as a terrorist since he wants to terrorize black people. THAT is plain hypocracy. The US should have taken on USSR directly instead of bringing in people from Middle East or Central Asia to fight the war if US thought it was her moral duty. This whole idea of terrorism was breeding on that treatment of US towards Al Qaeda and the Taliban. ISI supported 'Mujahidin' as you said to defeat push back USSR with the money of Arabs and equipments of US. Once USSR was pushed, the phantom of Taliban was beyond control and the US was far off safer to cut or oppose Taliban while ISI was at front door. Do you think these agencies are stupid to go straight against highly trained gorilla fighters if they are within the reach of war zone? ISI did and have to deal Osama or AL Qaeda from a safe distance to avoid the full scale invasion of Pakistan by Taliban. Do you know how many Pakistani lives are taken only because Pakistan allied with the US against Taliban post 9/11? 75000 so far that mainly includecommon people being killed in reteliation of Taliban for not opposing Pakistani government on the'war on terror' policy.

8 years 40 weeks ago
Report Abuse

thefidu881:

You are right to suggest that Muslims need to overhaul their beliefs and practices but it seems pretty messed up to me now. Just as a common muslim one thing is clear to me that Allah is creator and there is a judgement day where every individual will answer the deeds he committed. That being said I am no one to take anyone's life or judge him based on my beliefs. Allah knows and he knows what happens on judgement day. Its pretty simple to understand and it is something that keeps me away from judging people.

8 years 40 weeks ago
Report Abuse

ScotsAlan:

Black shooter: racist supremist.

 

Brown shooter: Terrorist.

 

White shooter: Mentaly ill.

 

The first two are evil, to be destroyed.  The third one, to be looked after in a hospital.

 

The right wing is full of hypocracy.  But this suits the people who make the guns.

 

There was a study come out last week about terrorist/ race hate deaths in the US since 9-11. No way I can find a link here in China without a VPN,  I think it was 38 caused by white supremicists, 26 caused by non white terrorists. Including the Boston Bombers.  Well, the white on non white just went up 9.

 

Billions of dollars are spent on hunting the non white terrorists, apparently there is a department of 1 guy who tries to identify the white terror guys.

 

Honestly, if you applied the definition of fundamdlisim across all religions, as people apply it to Islam, the Pope would be top of the hit list.

 

Can't wear condoms !!!!... feck.... this guy is mad.

8 years 40 weeks ago
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8 years 40 weeks ago
 
Posts: 1142

Shifu

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As a third generation American, I would not be who I am if the US did not have open immigration policies in place in the time period of 1900-1914. I don't know what I would be, but I am glad my ancestors were let into this country.

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8 years 40 weeks ago
 
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Shifu

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Only for Chinese and folks from some other countries, reciprocity, stuff like that.

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8 years 40 weeks ago
 
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Shifu

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To any person with enough money borders mean nothing. The rich of this world can come and go as they please, wherever and whenever they like. The very poor have no such luxury. There are over 60,000,000 refugees worldwide at this moment, more than half of them children, many orphaned through war. I think borders are there to keep the status quo. They are tools used to keep people in a subjugated state. China can do what it likes. I think that immigration could only do good things for a country that is so racially homogenous.

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8 years 40 weeks ago
 
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Shifu

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Not at all. China's policy is basically Blut und boden, The ideology here is that someone is "Chinese" or "Foreign" based on their race (Chinese visible minorities are considered only "technically Chinese"), hence terms like "American Born Chinese" (Something I've never heard with other countries, no "American Born Norwegian" or "Canadian Born Irish").

 

The immigration policy reflects this. China is racially homogenous, and while they like to talk about their 55 recognized minorities in order to pretend they are multicultural, any one who looks too different from Han is still considered not really Chinese and marginalized.

 

I wouldn't want any Western country to adopt similar policies as China, like trying to keep Britain only for "ethnic British", in order to preserve the purity of the race.

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8 years 40 weeks ago
 
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An open immigration policy can attract talented law-abbiding tax-payers, and even breed some more talented law-abbiding tax-payers, while bringing some diversity to the gene/meme pool. Example : some of my elders are Polish. Similar situation for about 70% of French population... I know modern examples, plenty of university mates who got naturalized, got kids, and are pretty much the dream citizens : good parents, work well, pay taxes, do civil duties, merge there native culture and French culture. Companies cheating on their taxes represent far more lost money that migrant cheating social welfare : the real welfare queens are big businesses. I'm ok with "right of soil" over "right of blood", it can work if the integration work is done on both side. I'm strongly against passerport-for-sell, however.

ScotsAlan:

I agree Dr M.

 

When it comes to integration... yes. Assimilation no.  And there are different levels of integration of course, I tend to lean towards the lower end of the scale.

 

The big elephant in the room is brain drain of course.

 

Many western health services are staffed by foreign staff, especially in the UK. The UK NHS actively recruits from the Phillipines. Doctors from India, Pakistan and African Nations are the hub of UK health care.

 

That's great. Highly skilled migrants doing very important jobs.

 

But what about the poor countries left behind? They are being stripped of their brightest and best, so the gap between "them and us" increases.  Brain drain favours the West.

 

I have a rather major dislike of the bigots who shout "shut the doors they are taking our jobs".  or " we give them million in aide but they bomb us".

 

Goodness me. Someone has to pay for the brain drain.

 

The other big factor is the difference between migrants and refugees.  Of course we should take refugees in.  And meanwhile, we should be working to try improve the countries they are fleeing from. Economic measures and school/hospital building. Not bombs, drones and missiles.

 

I see the pictures on the UK news of the Syrian and Iraqi migrants trying to hide on trucks at Calais. Oh how the western press like to demonize these folk.  Wow, we bomb their country, we give guns to opposing factions, and these people try to escape only to be classed as "sub human" by the right wing press. Yeah well, I am sure the accusers would much prefer they stayed at home, picked up a western made gun, and fired it at western planes on a bombing mission.

 

8 years 40 weeks ago
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RiriRiri:

Depends on how you define an "open immigration policy". If it's a policy that's opened to everyone indiscriminately but still based on a set of criteria and conditions to be discussed, then yeah. Everyone gets a shot but not everyone gets to stay (or go).

If it's just free for all come like you are we're at your service, then no.

You've lived in China, I'm sure you can understand why a Chinese passport and a Canadian passport don't have the same value, therefore why the applications won't be treated with equal considerations.

 

I too know my bunch of model immigrants (naturalized ex foreign legion among them, they hate the scum because they've been the scum), but the sad reality is, we met them in the first place because we come from the relatively-educated-middle-class. That's our circle, and that's theirs too. But they're the tip of the iceberg.

We never met the ghetto, we don't live there. But those who do have a different story to tell on the immigration chapter. If you look at the raw statistics of immigration in Europe in general and France in particular, you'll understand why.

 

How would you describe the Femen in term of model immigrants? Would you have granted a long term residency permit to their leader?

 

Agreed on the corporate tax evasion, but that's a whole other problem. Two wrongs don't make a right.

8 years 40 weeks ago
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8 years 40 weeks ago
 
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https://insights.som.yale.edu/insights/yale-study-finds-twice-as-many-undocumented-immigrants-as-previous-estimates

 

So the liberal ivy league elites admit that illegals are 22 million in America instead of all these fake numbers they have been giving us for years that it was not a problem.

5 years 27 weeks ago
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Hotwater:

And your point is? This 3-year old topic is about immigration policies. Clearly illegal immigrants aren’t covered by immigration policies...

5 years 27 weeks ago
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ambivalentmace:

Illegals have been given blanket amnesty and become legal, it happened twice already in America, the third time would be the charm, of course what they don't know is, they will be waiting in line for 20 years for documents. Reagan amnesty was a 12 year wait behind folks who were in line by legal methods waiting there turn, but let's not tell them that when we want the cheap labor and the vote for poor left plantation welfare causes to keep our power. By the way, your point about legal or illegal is not allowed anymore, the left social media website oligarchs have made "illegal alien" a cuss word like the "n" word that is no longer allowed in polite society, They are undocumented immigrants, that's the elites "political proper vocabulary for the new world order lexicon of tolerance and harmony". Careful you might end up in the same jail they sent Tommy to for hate speech.

5 years 27 weeks ago
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Answer of the DayMORE >>
A:  "... through ..."?  Only "through" comes to mind is "S
A: "... through ..."?  Only "through" comes to mind is "Shenzhen agent can connect you with an employer, who's authorized to hire waigouren ... and can sponsor Z visa." It's not like every 10th person you meet in Shenzhen's hood can sponsor work visa ...  The only way to change from student to labourer visa is just a regular way by: 1. Finding an employer, who'll apply for an Invitation letter; 2. Exit China and apply for Z visa in your home country's Chinese embassy; 3. Enter China in 30-days after Z visa was stamped into your travelling instrument ...As I am aware, you won't be able to switch to Working permit by remaining in China....,so make ready for a return to your home .... -- icnif77