Englteachted:

If Trump decided to institute a federal ban on assault rifles and mandatory restrictions on who can buy guns background checks , he'd be able to get most of his nutter base behind him

Stiggs:

I can't see that happening though Ted, Trump blocked a bill that would make it harder for mentally ill people to buy guns, cos every unstable nutter should be allowed to buy an assault rifle apparently. The NRA also spent a lot of money helping to get Trump into office.

philbravery:

And this is part of the reason why. https://finance.nine.com.au/2017/10/03/11/12/gun-maker-shares-surge-on-wall-street-after-las-vegas-massacre

retiredinchina:

http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2017/10/02/gun-control-in-europe-is-almost-total-it-hasnt-stopped-mass-shooting-attacks-like-las-vegas.html

retiredinchina:

Within hours of the horrible attack in Las Vegas, before we knew most of the relevant facts about the tragedy, gun control advocates were calling for more gun control. Here is something I would like those advocates to consider: Europe, which has all the gun controls that are being pushed in the aftermath of the Las Vegas carnage, has actually suffered more bloodshed from these types of attacks than the U.S.

My favorite paragraph in the article above, hypocrites. More machine gun attacks in Europe than America, not talking about automatic assault rifles here, we are talking about machine guns.

philbravery:

A machine gun is a fully automatic mounted or portable firearm designed to fire bullets in quick succession from an ammunition belt ormagazine, typically at a rate of 300 to 1800 rounds per minute. Not all fully automatic firearms are machine guns. Submachine guns,rifles, assault rifles, shotguns, pistols orcannons may be capable of fully automatic fire, but are not designed for sustained fire. As a class of military rapid-fire guns, machine guns are fully automatic weapons designed to be used as support weapons and generally used when attached to a mount or fired from the ground on a bipod or tripod. Many (but not all) machine guns also use belt feeding andopen bolt operation, features not normally found on rifles. In United States gun law, "machine gun" is also a legal term for any weapon able to fire more than one shot per trigger pull regardless of caliber, the receiver of any such weapon, any weapon convertible to such a state using normal tools, or any component or part that will modify an existing firearm such that it functions as a "machine gun" such as a drop-in auto sear.[1] Civilian possession of such weapons is not prohibited by any Federal law and not illegal in many states, but they must be registered as Title II weapons under theNational Firearms Act and have a tax stamp paid. The Hughes Amendment to the Firearm Owners Protection Act of 1986 banned new production of firearms classified as machine guns for most civilian applications, however, so only "grandfathered" weapons produced before this date are legally transferable. From Wikipedia

Englteachted:

Your info is wrong. It's state by state an NV, it is legal.

http://www.sfgate.com/bayarea/article/Assault-rifles-flow-freely-from-Nevada-3166911.php

Spiderboenz:

Ah, my mistake. I was thinking of the '86 manufacturing ban. 

That's a stupid loophole that should be closed. 

Aikidan:

The loophole is states rights and and the ignorant Nevada Attorney General.

https://www.yahoo.com/newsroom/vibes/entertainment/v-7563eca7-14c1-3a20-ab16-782788cde33a_c-b71badae-e3b4-3f35-b091-91dd4c32bb06_a-b71badae-e3b4-3f35-b091-91dd4c32bb06?soc_src=newsroom&soc_trk=com.apple.UIKit.activity.Mail&.tsrc=newsroom

LastTargarean:

"the U.N. should impose sanctions on the U.S." and I thought I was a loon with unrealistic expectations for the way the world works

ScotsAlan:

5.56 NATO is designed to kill ppl . As is 7.62.

Aikidan:

Scotsalan, you’re wrong about military ammo, and I assume retiredinchina will tell you the same thing. Most military ammo design is constrained by the Geneva Convention to be as humane as possible. No exploding , mushrooming or fragmenting rounds are allowed for military use. As a result they use “Ball” type ammo.  The purpose of the bullet is not killing, but rather to incompacitate the enemy combatants. The premise is it’s takes more personnel to care for the wounded; creates psychological damage “Less will to resist” as enemy soldiers are consequently viewed by fellow soldiers, civilians and family members. War is about destroying the enemies will to resist, not killing everyone. The vast majority of sportsman/hunters worldwide don’t use military ammo because it has less chance of lethality. Civilian ammo is generally, much more lethal than that used by any army for hand carried weapons.

retiredinchina:

Love your country, fear your government, as bad as the american government does everything, we going to let them be the only one with the guns, no thanks, I already live in China, one hell is enough, we don't need two of them. The question I always have with diversity is can you trust your fellow citizens, who happens to be civilian workers who get paid by your national government, to treat you fairly and not give preference based on their race, sexual orientation, economic class, etc. when you need law enforcement, entitlements, immigration, whatever, and the answer in America is "Hell NO". European governments covering up crimes to push refugees on the population is exactly what could happen in America, because in Europe, the government has the guns and the power to make you believe and put up with their biased agendas and the little average worker is screwed, sort of like a labor protest in China by migrant workers. I would rather die than live as a financial slave manipulated to believe bull shit by an omnipotent government. Some day the social justice warriors will have all of us free thinkers dead and they can have that utopia they love so much, but not yet.

Englteachted:

Retired you make zero sense and you are a prime example of the extremely flawed argument . 

You claim you want to be ready to fight the govt. Seriously what is the realistic chance of that happening? Ok so you have guns, the govt has tanks and jet planes so ..... you're already lost. 

Next you counter your own argument, you live in China with no guns!!!!!!!!!!!!! And you do so just fine.

But your argument is beside the point, why not make it illegal for criminals and pyschos to buy guns. ?

Aikidan:

I agree with retiredinchina. We had a time when, the then government, tried to take our weapons and control us. Taxation without representation. We fought, won our freedom, and it’s a major part of our ideological heritage. We have our faults, but, going silently into the night isn’t one of them.

Shining_brow:

" I would rather die than live as a financial slave manipulated to believe bull shit by an omnipotent government."

Apparently not... hypocrit.

As Scots said above - in the UK and Australia (and, for that matter, many of the European countries you just bashed)  their people told governments to change laws - and they did.

In the US, the people constantly tell the government to change laws - and nothing happens!

Ah, such wonderful irony! "Land of the free", my arse!

Stiggs:

Agree with what Ted said.

That line about the citizens needing to be armed to keep the govt from stealing their rights etc...  how well has that worked so far RIC?

People are often too apathetic to even vote much less fight the govt to defend their rights and if they did they wouldn't have a chance of winning.

Shining_brow:

To add to stiggs' post... look at people in the rest of the world, and their relation to their government.

I'm not sure which side of the debate this line will be, but... of the top 20  functioning (ie, developed) democratic countries in the world, the US comes in down the bottom... last!

So, somewhat ironic that the people's will in the land of the free and most democratic country in the world, can't change a law that most people demand to have changed, because of government interference.

retiredinchina:

i am glad some of you actually trust your government to be the only one with the guns, I hope in the modern era that works out for you, but I'm not a believer in the blind faith of the government doing the right thing. Elian Gonzoles, Rudy Ridge, the Waco massacre all happened with government using the barrel of a gun, and I disagreed with the tactics and violence used in all three cases, but unless I was there helping these victims with a private firearm, nothing would have changed the outcome, but that does not mean we should give up and let them run our life because they know what is best for us for our own good.

Stiggs:

@RIC.  Americans have been arming themselves since basically day one to protect yourselves from your government. Has it stopped the government doing what they want? From what I understand ( and I admit I don't know a lot about this) it hasn't made any difference, America is no more 'free' than any other developed western country with a democratic system, maybe less so.

On the other hand what you do seem to have there are people so terrified of all the gun wielding nutters that they feel the need to carry a gun with them every time they leave the house. You have people who don't feel safe at home unless they have assault rifles, shotguns and handguns to protect themselves. And not just one either - enough to hold off a small army.

You have metal detectors in schools FFS, because you never know when the next child shooter might start blowing the other kids away.You have talk of arming the teachers as protection against the kids. You have mass shootings basically every week.

As I understand it the right to bear arms originally came from colonial times when the people were scared of the English taking over. Or something like that. I don't think there's much danger of that now but in the meantime you people have another problem on your hands, all the armed crazies out there. Is having literally anyone who wants to be armed to the teeth really worth it? Has it improved your lives and freedoms enough that it's worth it? Sure doesn't look like it to me, you're still living in fear and those fears are being realized every. single. day.

I know you're dead set against any form of gun control, but it doesn't have to mean banning all guns.

How is checking to ensure people are responsible and sane enough to own a gun a bad thing? Nobody in their right mind would say a drunk, or someone who can't drive a car properly should be allowed to drive so why would it make any kind of sense to relax the laws even more to let an unbalanced psycho buy a carload of assault rifles, or to let him buy silencers so that next time someone starts shooting into a crowd they won't hear the shots and he can kill even more?

Stiggs:

 Noooo, not Tom Petty.

He's gone to the great wide open. RIP.

philbravery:

Not gone yet but in a bad way in hospital

philbravery:

Gone now http://thefix.nine.com.au/2017/10/03/15/07/tom-petty-dead-cardiac-arrest-management-confirms

Stiggs:

Or in other words... is this going to be portrayed as terrorism or just a nutter with some sort of grudge?

Shining_brow:

There's that side of it as well.

If he was a nutter with a grudge - who was part of a group of "Nutters with grudges", it'd be terrorism (and, no longer a 'nutter with a grudge').... Maybe he should have had a flag and a motto to yell?

Englteachted:

Same as Shining but in another direction. Cut the BS retired. They purposefully narrowed the definition to exclude a shitload of American shootings. 

"Mass public shootings – defined as four or more people killed in a public place, and not in the course of committing another crime"

Englteachted:

No need for BS. In China there is censorship and thought is policed hence sim cards being regulated to track what you say.

retiredinchina:

I never said anything but show the article. I just find that machine gun shootings, not automatic assault rifle shooting are more in Europe than America with so called "gun control", does anybody want to find out why or is it the intentions are good, regardless of results and outcome, it's the right thing to do. I have heard this diatribe all my life about just about every thing.

Hotwater:

As machine guns, as a lot of other guns in Europe, are illegal, then I’m sure the police investigate where they’ve been smuggled from. There is a problem with illegal guns which are generally used by gangs. The difference I see in the US is that the guns used by this latest nut job are easy to obtain legally. 

Englteachted:

"and not in the course of committing another crime"

You missed that bit

Englteachted:

Retired, you seriously need to learn to read.