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Q: Z visa for non-natives?
Does anyone know anything about the possible new regulation concerning Z visa for non-natives?
I've heard that there's a new regulation in Beijing which says that non-native English teachers can't get a Z visa for teaching.
8 years 14 weeks ago in Visa & Legalities - China
You're talking about Working permit, which is required document beside Invitation letter at Z visa application.
Employer (School) must apply for WP and Invitation letter at SAFEA (Foreign Expert Bureau) in the city of employment.
Granting of WP is individual city (Province) SAFEA's decision.
In all big cities in China, SAFEA will most likely decline WP for Non-native FT. It is the same in Provinces by the coast of China.
However, I as Non-naive English teacher work in China since 2009, and since 2010 till now had WP in Hebei, Liaoning, Xinjiang, Fujian and last one in Henan.
In Jiangsu in 2013, SAFEA flatly denied extending my valid Residence permit. The whole thing was a bit corny, because I'm still not sure, if school in Taizhou had 'laowai hire authorisation'. However, Jiangsu SAFEA told me, I should return home, because Non can't get WP in Jiangsu and most Provinces by the coast.
After that call, I successfully got WP in Fujian (not by coast, but with HK pick-up) and new WP now in Henan.
If such Law is/will be enforced, School where you'll apply should know, WP isn't possible for Non-native FT.
In my opinion, China can't afford to implement such Law regulation, because there are simply not enough Native English teachers in the whole world to satisfy Chinese English teachers demand. 300 million English students in China.
Lord_hanson:
Working in the recruitment industry i can tell you that only about 5% of applicants are native speakers now so they definately can't afford to enforce the regulations.
icnif77:
Native English teachers don't need a recruiter, unless they're very lazy.
I use recruiters, because they have listings of Schools in need of FT, and they know the ropes, i.e. where Non can get WP.
On other side, I believe Natives have same/similar problems as Non in China, especially young, not-into-China/Contract-things. You got to be careful at Contract English wording, as 'teaching hours' or 'teaching classes'. If you don't clear this term before you sign Contract, you can have a loads of extra non-paid work as your Contract requirement.
I always like to have my teaching classes
expressed in minutes
, before I ink the matter.
Recent example: 'I renewed Contract, and School dedicated new rep. Old Contract stated '15 teaching classes', and new Contract has wording '15 teaching hours'.
I'm fair all the way with School, and I explained wording to the rep., and told him if he thinks meaning is different as more classes or hours, I will ask Gov. for opinion/final decision.
Last year I told rep. I'll dial Gov., if school doesn't agree to pay for extra 10 days of work in February. I won, and rep. was replaced.
New rep. gave me new schedule today with 16 classes. I told him, School must increase my pay or cut 1 class. He replied: but our Contract state '15 teaching hours'. LOL
After lengthy explanation, he agreed with: 'I see your point', and it was my mistake because I didn't clear the matter before re-signing the Contract. It was the same Contract with different dates, so I let it go and sign it.
Chinese interpret English different than we do.
dmaninter:
What about your actual FEC/Working permit ? Is it mentioned "English Teacher" occupation in there or something else ? Is it for English teaching ?
There are enough rumors or true facts that non-natives who get FEC's, are not able to get it for English Teacher job as it is. In that case, the only explanation is that those FEC's are issued on behalf of company-recruiter, school etc. mentioning any of numerous occupations, excluding English teaching (customer service, IT, hospitality 等等等). Therefore, here comes a question, what makes us working Legally even though we have Z visa + FEC + Licensed school ?
http://middlekingdomlife.com/ask-ken/can-non-native-speakers-receive-a-z-visa-t631.htmlicnif77:
WP is in Chinese, but I am employed by Public High School as an Oral English teacher. I have FEC, too. I could also take position of IELTS/TOEFL Trainer or subject teacher.
If School sponsor WP and FEC, you can't be anything else, but English teacher. Doesn't matter in which language WP is written.
When you're sponsored by Co., it's no different than when sponsored by school. Co. has agreement with schools around China, which don't have 'laowai hire authorisation', and Co. place FTs in schools around China. 'Helen Group' Hangzhou is one such Co.
dmaninter:
I've been told from some recruiters, and even American Baby International English centre (ABIE) - for non-natives there's no Z visa for English teaching, so that ABIE (which is a big name in SH and China) can make M visa instead, that was scary to know that this licensed school provides M visa for work purpose.
icnif77:
You're not legal to work and receive pay in China, if you work with M.
That's just an excuse (Non can't get WP in China) of employer. Most likely, School doesn't have 'laowai hire license' and whole procedure with employing FT with M is simpler than Z.
As you can read above, I'm working in China longer term as Non-native English teacher, since 2010 with Z/RP.
You're talking about Working permit, which is required document beside Invitation letter at Z visa application.
Employer (School) must apply for WP and Invitation letter at SAFEA (Foreign Expert Bureau) in the city of employment.
Granting of WP is individual city (Province) SAFEA's decision.
In all big cities in China, SAFEA will most likely decline WP for Non-native FT. It is the same in Provinces by the coast of China.
However, I as Non-naive English teacher work in China since 2009, and since 2010 till now had WP in Hebei, Liaoning, Xinjiang, Fujian and last one in Henan.
In Jiangsu in 2013, SAFEA flatly denied extending my valid Residence permit. The whole thing was a bit corny, because I'm still not sure, if school in Taizhou had 'laowai hire authorisation'. However, Jiangsu SAFEA told me, I should return home, because Non can't get WP in Jiangsu and most Provinces by the coast.
After that call, I successfully got WP in Fujian (not by coast, but with HK pick-up) and new WP now in Henan.
If such Law is/will be enforced, School where you'll apply should know, WP isn't possible for Non-native FT.
In my opinion, China can't afford to implement such Law regulation, because there are simply not enough Native English teachers in the whole world to satisfy Chinese English teachers demand. 300 million English students in China.
Lord_hanson:
Working in the recruitment industry i can tell you that only about 5% of applicants are native speakers now so they definately can't afford to enforce the regulations.
icnif77:
Native English teachers don't need a recruiter, unless they're very lazy.
I use recruiters, because they have listings of Schools in need of FT, and they know the ropes, i.e. where Non can get WP.
On other side, I believe Natives have same/similar problems as Non in China, especially young, not-into-China/Contract-things. You got to be careful at Contract English wording, as 'teaching hours' or 'teaching classes'. If you don't clear this term before you sign Contract, you can have a loads of extra non-paid work as your Contract requirement.
I always like to have my teaching classes expressed in minutes, before I ink the matter.
Recent example: 'I renewed Contract, and School dedicated new rep. Old Contract stated '15 teaching classes', and new Contract has wording '15 teaching hours'.
I'm fair all the way with School, and I explained wording to the rep., and told him if he thinks meaning is different as more classes or hours, I will ask Gov. for opinion/final decision.
Last year I told rep. I'll dial Gov., if school doesn't agree to pay for extra 10 days of work in February. I won, and rep. was replaced.
New rep. gave me new schedule today with 16 classes. I told him, School must increase my pay or cut 1 class. He replied: but our Contract state '15 teaching hours'. LOL
After lengthy explanation, he agreed with: 'I see your point', and it was my mistake because I didn't clear the matter before re-signing the Contract. It was the same Contract with different dates, so I let it go and sign it.
Chinese interpret English different than we do.
dmaninter:
What about your actual FEC/Working permit ? Is it mentioned "English Teacher" occupation in there or something else ? Is it for English teaching ?
There are enough rumors or true facts that non-natives who get FEC's, are not able to get it for English Teacher job as it is. In that case, the only explanation is that those FEC's are issued on behalf of company-recruiter, school etc. mentioning any of numerous occupations, excluding English teaching (customer service, IT, hospitality 等等等). Therefore, here comes a question, what makes us working Legally even though we have Z visa + FEC + Licensed school ?
http://middlekingdomlife.com/ask-ken/can-non-native-speakers-receive-a-z-visa-t631.htmlicnif77:
WP is in Chinese, but I am employed by Public High School as an Oral English teacher. I have FEC, too. I could also take position of IELTS/TOEFL Trainer or subject teacher.
If School sponsor WP and FEC, you can't be anything else, but English teacher. Doesn't matter in which language WP is written.
When you're sponsored by Co., it's no different than when sponsored by school. Co. has agreement with schools around China, which don't have 'laowai hire authorisation', and Co. place FTs in schools around China. 'Helen Group' Hangzhou is one such Co.
dmaninter:
I've been told from some recruiters, and even American Baby International English centre (ABIE) - for non-natives there's no Z visa for English teaching, so that ABIE (which is a big name in SH and China) can make M visa instead, that was scary to know that this licensed school provides M visa for work purpose.
icnif77:
You're not legal to work and receive pay in China, if you work with M.
That's just an excuse (Non can't get WP in China) of employer. Most likely, School doesn't have 'laowai hire license' and whole procedure with employing FT with M is simpler than Z.
As you can read above, I'm working in China longer term as Non-native English teacher, since 2010 with Z/RP.
In big cities you can't, you must be a native, seen many turned down in Shenzhen when applying for a Z visa. This is also to provide the best English service that a none native speak can't provide. So I'd apply in small cities.
Thanks for the explanation. I know that some non natives got their WP, but not all, so now I understand why.
So it doesn't matter if a teacher is a professional or not, as long as he's a native.
icnif77:
If you would hire Chinese teacher for your school in West, you would also have problem to hire Chinese teacher from Vietnam or elsewhere than China, considering your Chinese level would be/is very low.
Only by seeing Native English country passport most Chinese are sure, they get proper English teacher.
Other thing is 'intonation' in Chinese language is very important, and they think English language is not different.
