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Q: Is age a factor in China, or is experience valued?
At 40, I started working as an English language instructor in China. I Have a total of 7 years teaching experience in China teaching all levels of students. While in the U.S., you're expected to work well into your 60s, yet in China the retirement age is significantly lower. I see the age "preferences" as quite young for teachers on most posts. Are companies fond of younger employees here because they are cheaper, or is there another reason for this apparent ageism. I don't want to sound jaded, but the posts speak for themselves.
3 years 35 weeks ago in Business & Jobs - China
last I checked they will not issue WP/RP past age 60. nothing to do with the school, I understand it's a 'rule/law' of Immi Dept. I heard it's because insurance companies don't wanna provide coverage age 60+.
anyone else know about this? ageism sucks beyond sucking! as most will find out,,,,, if they continue w/ the nasty habit of 'breathing'.....
icnif77:
Yes, this is rule from LTA ... however, I read reports here that at some schools, FTs are working past 60 years old, butT ... all WP/Z visa&RP is centralized, so the same rules apply all around China.
I was guessing, FT over 60 must be working with different visas (F) ... and without School's sponsored insurance.
The '60 years old' rule applies for legal work in most countries around the world.
You can get an insurance past 60-yo, but it's apparently costly ...
Stiggs:
I don't know this for certain but I suspect there's a 'grandfather clause' (no pun intended) a lot of the older guys are working on. If they're just rolling over an existing contract and signing up for another year with the same employer they might not necessarily be subject to the same scrutiny as someone applying for a new RP / WP.
The same with teachers who don't have the 4 year degree. A guy I know who has been in China for years doesn't have one so he most likely couldn't get a job as a newbie entering China now but he has been with the same school for ages and as far as I know has never had visa renewal issues.
diverdude1:
yeah Stiggs,,, I sure miss when things were done by guanxi. I told one staffer at the school to just pull some guanxi @ the immi dept., she thought I was talking about a Province!! hahha,,, lmao
yep77,,, I've heard the 'F' visa thing many times,,,, seems it works if u know how to pull it off....
icnif77:
I worked with F at my start in China in 2009. It was valid for 6-months and no exit required. Just hand your passport to School's official and few days later new stamp in the passport for another 6-months... or was it for 3-months, I am not sure now.
However, since there was/is no Release letter required and quitting on F was just walk-away, School kept the passport ... with new F in it ... I had to dial my Embassy to get passport back.
The other thing with F is you are always illegal ... cop's raids and such. Employer can also freely abuse you 'cause no protection from gov. (SAFEA). Since, FEB was dismantled, I am not sure how do you deal with employer's Contract disrespect, now ...
At the age of 53, and having worked in China for 8 years, I have never had a problem with being too old. One of my co-teachers is close to my age, and she has not had any problems. Our team leader and co-teacher is over 60, and has not had any problems in his 9 years here. Perhaps you should evaluate yourself a little closer, look at your CV, or find some other reasons why schools are not wanting you. With the extreme shortage of ESL teachers in China currently, I suspect that age is the least of your problems in getting hired.
Stiggs:
I know an of older guy still teaching in China, he was an old China hand when I started teaching there about 18 years ago and he's probably about 70 by now.
And I fully agree, if you can't get a job now, of all times, it's nothing to do with ageism, it's your problem.
last I checked they will not issue WP/RP past age 60. nothing to do with the school, I understand it's a 'rule/law' of Immi Dept. I heard it's because insurance companies don't wanna provide coverage age 60+.
anyone else know about this? ageism sucks beyond sucking! as most will find out,,,,, if they continue w/ the nasty habit of 'breathing'.....
icnif77:
Yes, this is rule from LTA ... however, I read reports here that at some schools, FTs are working past 60 years old, butT ... all WP/Z visa&RP is centralized, so the same rules apply all around China.
I was guessing, FT over 60 must be working with different visas (F) ... and without School's sponsored insurance.
The '60 years old' rule applies for legal work in most countries around the world.
You can get an insurance past 60-yo, but it's apparently costly ...
Stiggs:
I don't know this for certain but I suspect there's a 'grandfather clause' (no pun intended) a lot of the older guys are working on. If they're just rolling over an existing contract and signing up for another year with the same employer they might not necessarily be subject to the same scrutiny as someone applying for a new RP / WP.
The same with teachers who don't have the 4 year degree. A guy I know who has been in China for years doesn't have one so he most likely couldn't get a job as a newbie entering China now but he has been with the same school for ages and as far as I know has never had visa renewal issues.
diverdude1:
yeah Stiggs,,, I sure miss when things were done by guanxi. I told one staffer at the school to just pull some guanxi @ the immi dept., she thought I was talking about a Province!! hahha,,, lmao
yep77,,, I've heard the 'F' visa thing many times,,,, seems it works if u know how to pull it off....
icnif77:
I worked with F at my start in China in 2009. It was valid for 6-months and no exit required. Just hand your passport to School's official and few days later new stamp in the passport for another 6-months... or was it for 3-months, I am not sure now.
However, since there was/is no Release letter required and quitting on F was just walk-away, School kept the passport ... with new F in it ... I had to dial my Embassy to get passport back.
The other thing with F is you are always illegal ... cop's raids and such. Employer can also freely abuse you 'cause no protection from gov. (SAFEA). Since, FEB was dismantled, I am not sure how do you deal with employer's Contract disrespect, now ...
Some schools value experience. Others want a young, attractive face to attract business. China is not unique in that respect.
Other responders are correct -- foreign experts can't get work approval after they hit 60 (unless they earn a lot of money -- business exec money, not teacher money). If you get a "green card" you can continue working past 60 -- it is difficult to get insurance, but not impossible.
Is age and experience a factor? You dirty foreign pervert.
To O.P., if there is plenty of supply of younger teachers for your level of job post I'm afraid you'll have to showcase more qualities in order to compete. If these younger staff are mostly locals then it might be easier for you to think up the qualities you wanna differentiate yourself from the crowds with. If foreign nationals from a younger age are taking up the positions it might tell of something about the company values. Remember over here there's a fierce competition among work forces, so sometimes certain shining qualities are not emphasized unfortunately. But 40 is still a great age, good luck!
Schools in China will 'value' you most if you are:
Cheap
inexperienced
easily bullied and don't know your rights.
illegal
don't question anything.
Do your research and ask questions before accepting anywhere.
Good luck!
