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Q: Denied Residence Permit - What Now?
Hi,
I have an unusual situation and I wonder if anyone else has experienced this or knows of someone who has. Here’s what happened (TL;DR at the end):
I wanted to start a training consulting business in Shanghai. I was working as a kindergarten teacher but I have years of business experience from back home. Plus, I graduated with a master’s in international business in 2021. I hired a lawyer to help me with the process.
First, the lawyer registered the business as a WFOE. Then, I quit my teaching job at the end of the school year. My school gave me a release letter and canceled my work permit. Next, my lawyer applied for my new work permit and it was granted. My work permit category changed from teacher to manager. This process went smoothly.
My issues started when my lawyer applied for my new Shanghai residence permit. It seems that I was selected for extra investigation by the Entry-Exit Bureau. First, I had to submit a copy of my lease. Then, I was told to come for an interview and to bring six months of bank records (both personal and business accounts). I asked my lawyer about the interview and was assured that this sometimes happens to people making a career change or when a new company sponsors a foreigner. He told me to answer honestly and it would be fine. He was wrong.
My interviewer really did not like me. He was very upset that I, a kindergarten teacher, had the audacity to switch careers. I tried to explain my qualifications but he did not care. I also tried to explain what the business is but he seemed convinced that I was starting a business so I could tutor children and violate the Double Reduction policy. This awful interview lasted for about twenty minutes.
A few days later, I received my passport via kuadi. Inside was a new 30-day Temporary Stay visa instead of a Shanghai residence permit. My lawyer advised me to either get a new teaching job immediately or leave the country. He told me that I could work for a year and then try again with the business. I got a second opinion from a competing visa agency and they also gave me the same advice.
I wanted to stay in Shanghai so I started applying for jobs. Due to the long Mid- Autumn Festival/ National Week holiday, it took me a while to find a suitable job. I ended up going to the Pudong Entry-Exit Bureau on the last day of my Temporary visa. I went with my new school’s HR lady. She assured me that the school had the necessary connections to hire me/fix my problem and that I would be allowed to stay. This wasn’t the case. The Entry-Exit clerk told me to leave China by midnight, that I was on a “special list,” and that hiring me would be difficult/maybe impossible (The encounter was brief and didn’t contain many details or much English).
I left China that night. I packed what I could and flew out immediately to avoid an overstay and further problems.
Has anyone else gotten a new work permit but been denied a residence permit? Also, any ideas on what I can do? I’d like to return to Shanghai but it’s unclear if I’m allowed back. I’m also unsure if my problem is nationwide or only in Shanghai. I appreciate any information/insight/suggestions/etc. anyone can offer.
TL;DR: I started a consulting business in Shanghai. I received a new work permit under my business but was denied a residence permit. My lawyer advised me to get a new teaching job to stay in Shanghai but this didn’t work. I had to leave the country. Do you have any information/insight/suggestions/etc. for me?
26 weeks 2 days ago in Visa & Legalities - Shanghai
1) the chinese are a whimsical people who all think they are right, regardless of evidence and facts. They will also tell you what you want to hear
2) a Chinese lawyer doesn't necessarailly know the law, even if you do and are doing things right.
3) being on a 'special list' ? what did you do? Could it be that someone with guanxi decided to **** you over?
4) I did not regret leaving china and have started my own business in a more friendly envionment.
good luck
jenvsmall:
I actually got my lawyer's info from another foreigner I know who uses him for her consulting company. He set her up and renews her visa stuff annually. He seems completely competent but maybe not the best fit for my situation since I was a career change. As far as I know, I don't have any issues that would put me on a special list. I have never overstayed my visa, never been fined, never been given a warning. I've had no interaction with the police. I'm also pretty quiet so I doubt I inspire enough hatred to have someone purposefully mess with my residence permit application. I am glad to hear that you started a business elsewhere. It definitely gives me something to think about!
sorrel:
during my time in China I could never understand why some chinese, particularly those in my Department, made life for foreigners so difficult.
There was one liasion who normally was always smiling but one day hurled torrents of abuse at an Australian colleague when asked to give assistance that was part of his job.
It could easily be that someone, with guanxi, took it on themselves to make life difficult for you.
China creates more challenges for foreign workers than are necessary so maybe it is time to leave, unless you have family ties and a spouse that does not want to leave with you.
good luck
1) the chinese are a whimsical people who all think they are right, regardless of evidence and facts. They will also tell you what you want to hear
2) a Chinese lawyer doesn't necessarailly know the law, even if you do and are doing things right.
3) being on a 'special list' ? what did you do? Could it be that someone with guanxi decided to **** you over?
4) I did not regret leaving china and have started my own business in a more friendly envionment.
good luck
jenvsmall:
I actually got my lawyer's info from another foreigner I know who uses him for her consulting company. He set her up and renews her visa stuff annually. He seems completely competent but maybe not the best fit for my situation since I was a career change. As far as I know, I don't have any issues that would put me on a special list. I have never overstayed my visa, never been fined, never been given a warning. I've had no interaction with the police. I'm also pretty quiet so I doubt I inspire enough hatred to have someone purposefully mess with my residence permit application. I am glad to hear that you started a business elsewhere. It definitely gives me something to think about!
sorrel:
during my time in China I could never understand why some chinese, particularly those in my Department, made life for foreigners so difficult.
There was one liasion who normally was always smiling but one day hurled torrents of abuse at an Australian colleague when asked to give assistance that was part of his job.
It could easily be that someone, with guanxi, took it on themselves to make life difficult for you.
China creates more challenges for foreign workers than are necessary so maybe it is time to leave, unless you have family ties and a spouse that does not want to leave with you.
good luck
Let's get one thing straight. If you want to live and work in China then you have to work for a boss. If you try to open up your own consulting company then they always see it as you are trying to cut out the Chinese (pimp) and that you want to work for yourself.
jenvsmall:
It's definitely possible that this was the reasoning behind my issue. Other foreign people do own and operate their own businesses though.
icnif77:
I'd say, overall sentiment toward foreigners in China changed to worse big time.
Reversal of positive sentiment of foreigners started changing around 2015, while I was still working in China and in 2017, I've already had problems with/at the exit ... It was a rule at that time that after you completed the contract, you would automatically get 30-day Residence permit extension grant, (either for preparation of an exit or getting a new employer without exiting China and applying for new Z visa abroad) and in July of 2017, I instead got 10-days S2 - Humanitarian visa before my exit.
Now, I have never violated signed contract or had any kind of problems with cops or Chinese law overall during 8 years of living and working in China.
China isn't the same today as it was before 2017, when I moved out.
IMO, it's better to look for the green pastures elsewhere.
Good luck!
