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Posts: 247

Governor

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Q: Do any of you teaching in public high schools ever mention the Great Firewall of China?

I am running out of stuff to talk about so I thought that maybe this would be a good topic. I asked one teacher if it would be acceptable and they said it would be ok as long as I wasn’t to one sided against the government, but then my wife who also works there said I had better not.
I also want to do classes on domestic violence and other subjects that reflect somewhat poorly on China and especially Chinese men’s rude, selfish behavior. Anyone else dare to go down this path in a public school?

10 years 17 weeks ago in  General  - China

 
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Posts: 916

Shifu

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You may be threading on thin ice here. School going generations are more exposed to what's going on around them. I would find it hard to explain to them how their government decides what's good or not good for them on the internet. I can understand that you may want to let kids become more aware of things outside China but this may go against current policies. So, unless you are able to keep it level (which I think is very hard with young people), don't do it. On the issue of domestic violence, I think it's venturing into their private lives. Chinese are super conservative when it comes to family matters. Even if it is known that spousal disagreements result in violence, it is seldom spoken in public. There is a great deal of face involved. Nevertheless, you are the man on the ground. Perhaps you may have reasons for wanting to do this? 

ou812:

Actually I am just looking to find something that the kids would maybe have some passion about. I have kids ask me about FB from time to time and most know it’s blocked and more than a few have mentioned VPN’s to me as well. It would be hard for me to keep to neutral on the subject since I am a big fan of financial news I am often mad that I can’t read Bloomberg News and others that report on the hidden wealth etc. The available teaching material I can’t access on YouTube drives me nuts too. I would like the students to realize it isn’t all about controlling information, but that it is also about pushing business to Chinese websites instead of Western ones. As for the domestic violence I don’t see how Chinese will ever get better unless they understand how the civilized world feels about such things. I honestly see no way for this country to ever become a serious world power unless they treat there women better. From what I have seen during my time here it is probably twice as likely that the next Bill Gates or Steve Jobs will be a Chinese woman rather than a Chinese man. Not all, but far too many Chinese men are little more that heartless sperm donors, who’s only other real value might be sucking up polluted air; unless of course they are spewing out cigarette smoke in a closed elevator with several small children in it. After reading this rant, I have concluded that in all likelihood it is best I not discuss either. I am guessing break from China might also be in order during the summer holiday.

10 years 17 weeks ago
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louischuahm:

If your students are uni level or even high school types, maybe talking about how they would like to start families of their own instead. This may lead to courtship subjects and the like, you know, raging hormones and all. This should be passion enough for them. Every time you talk about pros and cons of government policies or cultures people may think that you are stirring shit. Better to steer away from those subjects. I know you want to give more and conquer the world but hey, this is THE MIDDLE KINGDOM. Your good intentions may be regarded otherwise.

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Do you seriously have students with good enough English to grasp concepts such as those mentioned?  I teach in a public high school and if I get a student who can offer a coherent answer to even the simplest of questions I can't help but chubby up!

Eg..."Hi, what's your name?"  "I like chicken."  Like that.

 

 

ou812:

Actually I have many students that are really fairly good at understanding English, and some that are decent speakers too. I am, however teaching at the best high school in a town of nearly 500,000 and I have around 1200 students. That being said trust me I have several busloads of students that could barely read a simple comic book. My wife who’s quite smart taught me this important lesson: “The most difficult part of teaching is creating an interest or passion in the subject.” Even if they can’t explain to me in English this time what they are thinking maybe the next time we meet they will have spent some time and effort to get their point across to me. I do my best to have all students participate in class, but at the end of the day if I can even get 5% of the class really interested in becoming good English speakers I would consider that as being successful.

10 years 17 weeks ago
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royceH:

Yes, me too.  5 to 10% is the reality. 

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Really interesting question, ou812.

 

In my experience, most students aren't receptive to any foreign criticism of China. This is because:

 

1. They have been conditioned to perceive other countries as unfairly biased against China (due to American media). Suggesting that China has any problems will immediately confirm this in their minds.

 

2. China has a culture of giving praise instead of being honest or confronting problems. Chinese people would rather hear positive words than consider the truth or complexity of something.

 

3. Chinese people don't have the capacity for analysis. They think in slogans, which is to say they don't tend to engage with reality. Trying to explain why censorship of information is a problem is way too abstract.

 

I teach Western History in a university, and that alone is a very fraught topic. My students are great, but the moment I mention something like "America is a democracy", a number of them become visibly defensive, because they perceive the word “democracy” as a criticism of China.

 

You should also check your contract. Mine explicitly prohibits me from talking about sensitive topics – those being politics, religion and Chinese history. Fortunately, the requirements of teaching Western History overwrite the first two.

 

In answer to your question: Don’t talk about the GFW or other political problems in class. Your students probably won’t be receptive, and will resent any perceived criticism of China. Also it’s an unnecessary risk. If a student reports you (this is a real thing) you may have problems. China is very sensitive about foreigners influencing students’ ideology.

 

All that said, if a student asks (in their own time), talk to them! I occasionally encounter a student who knows they’re not getting the full picture, and is genuinely interested in another perspective, and knowing more than they know. But save such topics for interested students.

ou812:

Thanks to you and the others for your input, I guess it’s a good thing I asked. Actually I had visions of doing a top 10 things I don’t like about China. It was going to start with a comical look at the overabundance of back hair in China and end with the serious issue of domestic violence. I don’t agree with the firewall, but it would have to be in the bottom half of my top ten list.

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i use freegate to get youtube videos for my ielts classes at high school all the time, but if they want to use the computer and pursue their on interests, the vpn is on the computer but the guys put on a computer game and the girls watch handsome boys in korea sing music, they are programmed not to care about politics. i explained the problem in ukraine from the beginning of the country till now and they dont care a bit about it. when i told them if ukraine goes to the eu, russia will for the first time have nato troops on their border, they did not understand the problem at all. clueless.

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interesting topic.

I have just come back from a class this evening that i have me for the first time.

the level of apathy is mind-blowing.

while trying to gauge the level of english i began with some fairly basic non-commital questions like:

1   what do you like to do in your free time?

2   what do you like to do?

3   where would you like to travel if you could go anywhere?

only to be met with :

1)+2) nothing / sleeping

3) my home town

most students seem to have been sucked dry in terms of any sort of personality with no hopes or dreams.

i would love to have a student in this class that actually engages on any sort of level.

 

With the more challenging students, i do engage with more challenging topics, but steer clear of potentially sensitive issues within the class.

Hotwater:

I work in a British owned Engineering company and find generally that 80%+ (a guesstimate!) give similar answers to what you get from your students. Then you get the rare ones....who travel independently and after building up some trust with me do slowly start to ask questions in private about my views on human rights issues, Tibet, etc. I'll be honest and say that up to now I find ways to avoid detailed conversations on these subjects as a) I don't know if they are "testing" me to see if I'm anti-China and b) I'm a guest in their country and try not to offend anyone's sensibilities by criticising their country. Though I have been told by some that "I love my country but not my government".

 

i have once reacted badly to a comment from a middle manager who I respect when she was spouting out the latest propaganda about the "Dalai clique", I responded strongly and then we immediately changed the subject.

 

The one funny reaction I got recently was while leaving the office for lunch and the IT manager was chatting with a few other guys in Chinese and on seeing me turned round and asked me if I thought Taiwan was an independent country.....my immediate reply, with a smile on my face, was "Sorry, I don't talk about the "3-T's" inside China....Taiwan, Tibet and Tiananmen"! He burst out laughing, understanding exactly where i was coming from.

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Chinese ppl are the most boring ppl on Earth....Not the women.

 

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Shifu

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In my experience most of them know about this kind of stuff already, they are well aware of Facebook and Youtube. They just don't really care because there is access to local made alternatives that are in some aspects superior.

 

I find that mentioning controversial topics can go well in a class as long as you don't air your views (if they are opposing to the students) too loudly, keep the debate focussed and if it looks like it's getting out of hand be prepared to change the topic very quickly.

 

In my classes (with adults) I have spoken about Hong Kong, Taiwan, GFoC, etc...I have a good relationship with my students and they know me well enough now that whenever new students come to the class and ask me what countries I've been to I always mention HK and everyone laughs!

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Governor

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I know teachers, professors, and church groups that distribute copies of freegate to every Chinese they know and trust.

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10 years 17 weeks ago
 
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