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Q: Do you find yourself rejoicing at bad economic news for China?
I know I rely on them to pay me my salary, but so many people here are such classless, vulgar dickheads that whenever I hear about factories losing orders or the banks having to print more money because a bunch of morons built too many houses and another bunch of morons bought them I can only think that it serves them right.
Do you get any pleasure out of the difficulties these talentless bastards are starting to face?
What kind of classless, vulgar dickhead gets pleasure out of other people's misfortune?
laowaigentleman:
Haha, well if they obtained it by lying to and exploiting others then they're getting their just reward.
Think of all the damage Chinese conspicuous consumers and property speculators cause outside of China and you'll see that my sentiments are based upon what the greater good for humanity is, which is that shonky businessmen need to be wiped out.
It's called Schumpeterian capitalism. The best kind.
Eorthisio:
The Chinese kind of person, they rejoiced when the earthquake hit Japan in 2011, they rejoiced when the hurricane hit the Philippines in 2013, they rejoice when the West struggles to create any growth.
laowaigentleman:
But, Eothisio, remember, the west can innovate and the Chinese only copy so if the west have a brilliant new idea then its influence won't show up in the GDP whereas if a western idea like using soap in the shower comes to China, then the increase in soap sales will result in a high GDP.
GDP has so many flaws it's absurd to apply to anything without considering the innumerable flaws with the metric first. How fitting that the Chinese respected it the way the cadres respected kilograms of grain during the great leap forward.
Shows the dumb bastards can't learn.
dongbeiren:
Right Laowai, all of them are just lying corrupt cheaters who should be living in the sewer. You on the other hand, are the enlightened intellectual whose arse should be kissed by all due to your infinite wisdom. Oh how the world is such an unfair place to exalt these animals while holding you down.
My UK boss was made redundant this week, as were 30 odd Chinese colleages. Add to that another 10 or so UK colleagues. And lets not forget the 100 Chinese contract operators and the 150 minimum wage operators who left because overtime was stopped. If Laowaigent is representative of Western culture then no wonder the west is fucked. Karma dude... karma.
Rejoicing on people problems, I'm not sure that's very healthy... Most affected people would not understand why it happens to them, and won't see their place in the cause & effect chain. That sounds like troubles for way too many people.
The Chinese model scares me very much, for what I've seen of it. I see it as very destructive and unsustainable, for the environment and for people's sanity. So that how's China run become the standard, nope, do not want. Alternative ways to run a society, well, can't say it's shiny elsewhere. Say, the alternative is something where the financial world decides everything in the shadows ?
Bad economic news in China are not making me feel happy, the consequences are as bad as a the alternatives. I look at people rioting over trivial things here, seeing at a nation level scares me. I just hope Chinese people see that apathy is not making bad things go away, and that shouting/rioting about it does not replace facing oneself.
laowaigentleman:
It's not. I was an arse to say it, man.
I like regular Chinese folks a lot. I've been too self-absorbed.
So you rejoice over the misfortunes of 1.3 billion people? That would suggest that you have some serious issues man. I actually pleasure in seeing people prosper even if they are a little rough around the edges and get on my nerves at times. The older generations in China have been through horrors that you can't even imagine and it is quite nice to see them enjoying increasingly comfortable lives. Are there a lot of spoiled new rich dickheads? Sure, but that's inevitable given the rapid rise from abject poverty into economic powerhouse.
I don't want to see my wife and her family suffer. I don't want to see most of the Chinese people i've met suffer. I don't want the random guy on the street to suffer even if I find his habits displeasing. I don't want my economic prospects to decline due to an economic downturn. I don't want my savings in rmb to depreciate.
Laowaigentleman, I've tried to hold my tongue with you and remain civil in spite of you rubbing me the wrong way but this post really proves that you are just full of sour grapes. You often come across as bitter but this is just over the top man. You have shown your true colors. Why don't you try to make your own life better rather than enjoying the suffering of others?
laowaigentleman:
Hold up.
I don't get pleasure out of the suffering of billions of people. I haven't visited the province you live in so I can't speak so much for the moods you find yourself in as a result of the pollution and the constant attempts to cheat and belittle me from my employers to try to squeeze as much money out of me as possible.
I have a Chinese family too and I am doing my best to provide for them. Perhaps I shot my mouth off without really thinking through what I was saying, but I have a close network of Chinese friends as well as friends of family who are constantly relating stories to me of how they're cheated, exploited and disrespected by their employers. It makes me bitter, not simply as a result of my circumstances, but of the circumstances of people who I care about.
When I heard about "bad economic news" I will admit I do actually feel a little pleasure, but it's definitely schadenfreude and it's definitely misplaced.
Here's the reason why I experience the initial "joy" although the emotion's not quite THAT strong:
I worked for a steel company which was poorly managed and treated its employees badly too. The 2008 recession caused company sales to slow down and forced the board to replace virtually all of its management for the better of the company. As a result of this experience, I've had a prejudice against incompetent people and I've always told myself that a recession and a restructuring is actually a kind of natural purge. I'm probably undergoing some form of cognitive dissonance here when I consider my attitude to such circumstances because my own father was laid off during a recession too. Like Robk says, schumpeterian capitalism seems to only hurt the workers, it's the fat cats who can get out.
I'll let you in on something so you don't judge me too harshly ok? Many of you, including yourself shared some details about your lives and I didn't contribute at the time.
I've been in China for three years having come as a result of a sudden decision to get away from someone who had nearly murdered me. This was my ex-partner. She drove a knife through my leg and wound up in jail almost a year later on three separate charges for attacking me with a knife. I've three brothers who won't talk to me because for some reason I kept returning to the girl because I found my life in NZ so banal and repetitious. I could never find the right kind of stimulation I needed, so I wound up hanging around with some pretty rotten people.
About a half a month ago I received a letter from my 92 year old grandfather who always had an enormous amount of time for me. Tears rolled down his cheek during our last meeting and when I drove away I was of the feeling that I would never see him again. He wrote about how he was so sad that he never got to see me, but I felt pleased at the same time because he knew I must finally be happy.
Truth be told mate, I am quite happy here, but I've been feeling as guilty as shit for not going home to see my family. I will go back in October, but since I got the letter, I've been having dreams that I'll get some kind of message saying that my grandfather has died and that I'll never get to see him again. I've been so immersed in my own self trying to build a whole new life away from people who were quite right to shun me for my stupidity, but in the process I've hurt someone who I really respect and admire.
My anger for this place comes from the vulgarity of the behaviour of the people here with their conspicuous consumption and materialism, but you'd probably agree that I should at least give this some consideration.
Anyway, things aren't so bad. I talked to my brothers on skype and they've met my new Chinese girl and tried to speak with her family too.
I feel like such a piece of shit for writing what I wrote last night, so your reaction is completely appropriate.
You are a good guy, so I hope you can eventually forgive me for saying that I hoped people you care about suffer. I certainly don't hope for that just as much as I hope no-one I love ever has to suffer too.
So thanks for this, I definitely needed it. It's you that I owe a lot to, because of all the people here, you're the guy who calls me on my shit. I listen, man and you're spot on.
Sorry mate. Hopefully one day you'll let me call you that.
dongbeiren:
Laowai, It sounds like both of us got away from situations that were kind of harmful back home. It's easy to have a love-hate relationship with China and it kinda sounds like that's where you're at although more towards the hate part. My advice: focus on the positives and if they are few and far between, at least be grateful that you got away from a toxic situation and your psycho ex. When I get down about the pollution and uncivilized locals (both are pretty bad where I live) I remember that I got away from a toxic situation in my life and am now happier and healthier than I've ever been. I enjoy my financial freedom of making the month's rent in a few days work and being able to do what I want day to day and still save a hefty chunk of my paycheck. I am grateful for my new family in China. Yea, it's a love-hate thing. Dude, I'll call you out for what I see but at the end of the day it sounds like your heart is basically in the right place so that's enough for me to make peace.
laowaigentleman:
I'm in the same boat with you.
There are plenty of times when I shoot my mouth off if someone pisses me off and I feel bad about it afterwards, but it was what you and Royce said that really showed me how messed up I can become.
I had terrible PTS from the incident. I was stabbed through a major artery in my leg and I had to drive myself to A and E with a makeshift tourniquet draped around my leg. She was throwing knives across the room.
Once she went into jail she kept sending mail to my parents' house with the name of the prison on the envelope and once she got out she started stalking my brothers through Linkdin and Facebook.
I'm really not that pretentious, although I can't hide my disdain for any employer or person of influence who goes around flaunting their wealth and trying to make others feel inferior.
The thing is, I've been a part of the problem when all I was trying to do was vent as it's the classlessness of the nouveau riches here that really stings when you come back from the office having listened to your boss offer a load of lame excuses in an attempt to get out of paying you what you signed up for.
I sure as hell don't want my savings to be depleted by a devaluation, so I've no idea what one earth I was thinking.
Have you heard the expression, pull finger? I'll pull head from now on.
laowaigentleman:
I'm in the same boat with you.
There are plenty of times when I shoot my mouth off if someone pisses me off and I feel bad about it afterwards, but it was what you and Royce said that really showed me how messed up I can become.
I had terrible PTS from the incident. I was stabbed through a major artery in my leg and I had to drive myself to A and E with a makeshift tourniquet draped around my leg. She was throwing knives across the room.
Once she went into jail she kept sending mail to my parents' house with the name of the prison on the envelope and once she got out she started stalking my brothers through Linkdin and Facebook.
I'm really not that pretentious, although I can't hide my disdain for any employer or person of influence who goes around flaunting their wealth and trying to make others feel inferior.
The thing is, I've been a part of the problem when all I was trying to do was vent as it's the classlessness of the nouveau riches here that really stings when you come back from the office having listened to your boss offer a load of lame excuses in an attempt to get out of paying you what you signed up for.
I sure as hell don't want my savings to be depleted by a devaluation, so I've no idea what one earth I was thinking.
Have you heard the expression, pull finger? I'll pull head from now on.
I wouldn't say rejoice, it's not a pleasure even guilty for me, but now I have this to say: better now than later.
Economic slowdown was bound to happen, and quite frankly it isn't bad news.
The Chinese model as it is is the most self-destructive and unsustainable one ever implemented on every single level. Seeing it lose momentum is better than having it crash overnight and being a danger to everyone - including itself. Because it really all boils down to these two options.
Chinese will never be delivered on all the wealth they were promised. And the oligarchy in charge will never have its innovative first-world nation they believed they could proclaim. Hopefully this will be time for some reality checks and introspection.
Or just fuck this, blame Japan and go to war.
laowaigentleman:
It's the same for me, I kind of guilty pleasure that I ought to be highly ashamed off. Once I deploy rationality I can refute it, but it's still there because of how badly my bosses always try to cheat me.
Sounds like you need to go home dude. Don't turn into a bitter asshole - it's an incredibly hard thing to shake off. Hatred, if that's what this is, is a wasted emotion. New Zealand is awash with greedy fat-cats who make their money through speculation - our Prime Minister being a good example. We also have a whole bunch of welfare bludging, work-shy peasants who could learn a few lessons from a visit to China to see what happens when a society doesn't have a welfare net to catch you when you've had 17 illegitimate children and dropped out of school when you were 14.
laowaigentleman:
You sum it up just as I would.
I'm dealing with a lot of shit from my employer as you know and I've had some major painful family problems which I'm in the process of resolving.
Teflon John is wrecking the place and it is so tough to get a steady enough income to make buying a house there an even vaguely tangible goal. I really want to be able to take my girlfriend and possibly even my niece back there so my niece's hopeless father doesn't try to come and find her.
Family shit man, from both my blood and my girl's blood.
It's gotten to the point where it has perhaps pushed me over the edge.
Don't take anything I wrote seriously here.
I'm under some of the worst stress a guy can have to undergo.
I don't want China to suffer. I hope it thrives and improves. The keyword is improves. I don't like the way bosses treat people here. It makes me so angry that I say fucked up shit, and believe me: I know what I wrote last night was fucked up shit.
I know that. I'm sorry guys. I'm a fucking pretentious primary school teacher.
I took onboard what my kiwi friend wrote once. I am a crap guy. Now I am completely free.
I'm ok, just so you know, but I'm feeling guilty and foolish as hell.
ScotsAlan:
I do it myself. Its the isolation that is the problem. Nowhere to vent fustrations but here. Thats why I like this site. A good verbal battle helps vent steam, even if the heat source for the steam is a million miles from the battle :)
royceH:
Well, cheer up Brian! Remember, when you're chewing on life's gristle, daaahnn't be worried, give a whistle!
And failing that, I suggest a bex and a good lie down.
dongbeiren:
@laowai
The internet is good for venting - better to get your fucked up shit off your chest here than deal with the consequences of saying stuff you regret in real life. And since you're admitting that you were a dick in your post I'll admit that my new thread poking fun at you is kinda dick too. Yea you're a prick, I'm a prick I'll drink to that .
Fellow human beings are our brothers and sisters. So no I don't rejoice in another persons misery. I also think that as a superpower it will not be as benign as america was but would be an improvement upon the soviet union
No, but haven't most of us been predicting just this sort of thing on this website for years? And lets be honest, what would a decline in GDP growth really mean for them? We've known for a long time that the GDP growth numbers have been artificial-- "just for a point of reference" was what Li KeQiang said about it in 2010. Maybe the government will use it as an chance to clean up their creative accounting practices. Maybe the people will get sick of it and create a more egalitarian state. A crisis can be an opportunity.
laowaigentleman:
I was having dinner with two Chinese friends of mine who're in the process of starting a business. I'm doing some translating stuff for them.
I told them I was hoping to get out of teaching and into something multi-faced because of my experience back home in the construction industry.
I don't think there's anything in this part of China for me, whereas if I went to Guangdong, I could possibly meet people and get out of teaching.
My Chinese friends asked me a lot of questions and I explained how I saw a few things and told them why I thought the way I did. I think they already thought the same as me, but have always been pressured to think "patriotically".
These two people are thirty, but they're well educated and sensible, so if China churns out more like them I'm optimistic about the place's prospects.
mattsm84:
You know, they've started building again back home now that the recession is over. Maybe you should consider coming back and getting back into your real job. A Chinese company is never going to hire a foreigner to do a job that a Chinese person could do only half as well but for only a third of the money.
laowaigentleman:
My brother has just qualified as a project manager and is working for a construction company. I miss that kind of work.
Has it actually started? I remember driving around Wellington and the Hutt Valley in 2009 seeing signs from Weltec saying "get ready for the next NZ building boom"
They haven't repealed the resource management and resource consent acts, so I'm sure the building will only be light. If I were teflon, I'd hold my nerve, repeal both those laws and sell off loads of state houses in concert. That'd really mess up the boomers, who're his key constituency.
Wish I was a plumber or an electrician. Are you planning on going back? I miss the place, but I spent more than three quarters of my working life there so I'll wait a little longer. You're right about the Chinese mindset though. Couldn't organise a piss-up in a brewery.
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