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Posts: 2536

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Q: Expat war...which one are you?

The long timer married with kid and content living here...insulted by anything remotely deemed offensive to the Chinese people or culture.

The mid-timer...not married to a Chinese woman (or man) who has learned to accept and even love some aspects of China but still is undecided as to whether their life would be better back home.

The short timer....2 kinds...the first being the escapers/adventurers that are eager to find something new and exciting...came to China with high hopes and have not become jaded yet....the second kind being the type who said what the hell...lots of jobs and opportunity in China but after 2 weeks thought what the hell was I smoking and grows jaded?

 

Which one are you and did I miss a category? 

 

I think there is a healthy mix of all these here.

11 years 33 weeks ago in  General  - China

 
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I don't think I fit into any of those categories.

 

For me, I have been here long enough for the honeymoon phase to be a distant memory.  I have a Chinese wife and 2 small kids.  While I love a lot of things about my life here, I do realize the many, many problems this country has but get frustrated knowing nothing I do or say will ever change any of it.

 

Will I live here forever?  Not a chance.  Maybe a few more years at maximum, few more months at minimum.

 

As I said earlier, I see a lot of things here that are just wrong.  But, what gets me pissed off is people making blanket statements about China or any other place on the planet.  And yes, I know I am guilty of making those blanket statements myself.

 

The truth is that I have seen incredible kindness and generosity here as well as incredible self centeredness and a complete lack of morales.  There is no blanket statement that covers China or anywhere else.  And if I could keep that in my own mind, I think I will finally get that sainthood I have been coveting.

slyvie:

Generalizing works perfect for Chinese.They all got a space under one blanket.

11 years 33 weeks ago
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11 years 33 weeks ago
 
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I think I fit in there as a hybrid. A mid-timer, married to a Chinese woman (and raising a Chinese son by her previous marriage), who's getting along pretty good with the culture and who understands both the good and the bad about living in a foreign country. I love a lot of things about China, but as an outsider I see all the "bad" things, also.

 

Will I stay? Probably not. I could make a lot more money back in the States, and have a healthier lifestyle, but I do enjoy the relaxed work schedule here, and my standard of living, for what I make, is comparable to what it would be "back home."

 

The funny thing is, when I do get back home, I will probably be more Pro China than I am here, if for no other reason that most people in the States are completely ignorant about what China is like ("They're all Commies!" or "They're out to destroy us!"). It's kinda ironic that here, immersed as I am in the society, I am annoyed by so many little things, but when I finally leave, I'll probably wish I was right back here. Well...maybe.

lokethebloke:

Thought of offering your obvious talents to any NGOs?

For free of course!!!!

11 years 33 weeks ago
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giadrosich:

Lol. No way. I gotta feed that family, ya know. wink

11 years 32 weeks ago
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11 years 33 weeks ago
 
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I'm the Newbie

I got offered an opportunity and so here i am

I came with no expectations, and very little knowledge of what to expect, some things i like, some things i don't, but i don't let anything upset me, and i take each day as it comes.

I live in a small town and not a large city, and i haven't seen another westerner since i got off the plane.

I don't know if i will stay long term, but i will always keep my options open.

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11 years 33 weeks ago
 
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Shifu

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Short-timer (yet), previously had experience with China, and came to stay here for long (long-timer in spe).
Not married with Chinese woman, but OK to do it.
Knowing that China have many faces, just like any country in the world, but for him (me ) it is still best place. 

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11 years 33 weeks ago
 
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Short to MiddleTime Adventurer,,,,, There are more things at home that I hate than in China, welfare bums, dead beats, a justice system that doesn't work,  governments that are not affective and exist for themselves, cops that are petty shits, taxed to death, can't blow your nose without a permit. Sure I can cross the road, but could get a ticket for jay walking. Heaven help me should I be caught in public with open liquor. Then there's the average size of an ass.

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11 years 33 weeks ago
 
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I don't think I fit into any of those categories.

 

For me, I have been here long enough for the honeymoon phase to be a distant memory.  I have a Chinese wife and 2 small kids.  While I love a lot of things about my life here, I do realize the many, many problems this country has but get frustrated knowing nothing I do or say will ever change any of it.

 

Will I live here forever?  Not a chance.  Maybe a few more years at maximum, few more months at minimum.

 

As I said earlier, I see a lot of things here that are just wrong.  But, what gets me pissed off is people making blanket statements about China or any other place on the planet.  And yes, I know I am guilty of making those blanket statements myself.

 

The truth is that I have seen incredible kindness and generosity here as well as incredible self centeredness and a complete lack of morales.  There is no blanket statement that covers China or anywhere else.  And if I could keep that in my own mind, I think I will finally get that sainthood I have been coveting.

slyvie:

Generalizing works perfect for Chinese.They all got a space under one blanket.

11 years 33 weeks ago
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11 years 33 weeks ago
 
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  Yeh, i'm the short-timer, out for adventure, then turned mid-timer after discovering teaching and hooking up with one of the local girls, finally turned long-timer when the bitch got pregnant. Wayagunnado?

  Ok, I guess I did give it a little more thought than that. Wouldn't say i'm completely settled and ready to defend China against all comers though, as you suggested of us 'long-timers', but I certainly don't warm to people who make broad generalizations.

  Think you did miss out a rather large sub-culture of expats though: the guy who just came to get laid. They come in each category, from short-timer to long, and the most painful to witness of these is the 70 year old of the species, walking down the road in a floral shirt and a cowboy hat, dreaming that he looks 35. Ouch.

lokethebloke:

I haven't got a floral shirt -can you lend me one until it gets ripped off my back by my latest young admirer.

Forget the cowboy hat, my knotted hanky will surfice.

11 years 33 weeks ago
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lokethebloke:

I see we were both referenced at the closing,   martians sending postcards home, and everybody standing for cousin Harry

11 years 33 weeks ago
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diverdude1:

I ain't the 70 year old in Asia yet,,,,,, but I'm knocking on the door !   I was out with a 21 year old the other night,,,  I told her I was 21 also,,, she said 80 !   haha,,,, Life is for Living !!!  Grab the shit by the balls,,, we are all dead soon enough !

10 years 25 weeks ago
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11 years 33 weeks ago
 
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Been here a short time (just under 2 years) married to a Chinese woman (8 years married) and have a young daughter.

 

I can see China's faults but get irritated when people just slag of the whole nation for the errors of a few. I try (and often fail) to see the  positive in any situation. I also realise China IS changing and those CNN (via the CIA) stories released regularly are most time extreme exaggerations but more often are an indication of the institutionalised fear of China by USA PLC!

mArtiAn:

  If I coulda said that, Hugh, I woulda said that too. I think there are just as many right-wing trouble makers in Britain though, just as quick to throw muck China's way. Just open the Daily Mail any day of the week. Then close it, fast, that shit's contageous.

11 years 33 weeks ago
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Hugh.G.Rection:

Oh I agree mArtiAn, we have WAY too many right wing nut jobs in the UK, (indeed it wasn't a minor consideration in my deciding to leave). However, I really wasn't making a political point but an economic one, although as you point out it is just as valid about the UK.

 

My point was the USA (and the UK and many other 'western' nations) are economically petrified of China and so they 'release' scare stories to build up a fear within their own populations. This, in my opinion, doesn't come from the respective governments but it comes from the 'money' that chooses those governments for the sheeple to elect.

11 years 33 weeks ago
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thedude:

Hugh....same crap different pile in China...government and their families raid and loot the country much the same as the rich do in the west do through election...the big difference being the west actually has elections...Canda and Britain have laws preventing the perverse legalized bribing that occurs in US elections...but at least they have freaking elections.

 

11 years 33 weeks ago
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philbravery:

I have a new found respect for HGR

what you and Dude have said makes sence (to me anyway)

and you have defined your position as per the question

I am not a expat in the general scope of things.

I get to come and go as I please and stay only short amount of times

so I get to see only the middle road

11 years 33 weeks ago
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Hugh.G.Rection:

thedude, yup same crap different place, and to a large extent that was what I was pointing out. USA / UK plc are scared of China, that is obvious even to the economically illiterate. As to elections, I think the people of China have exactly the same effect on their government as the people of USA and UK do, i.e. zilch. The elections are a sham designed to pacify the masses, you get to choose from two identical twin parties that would need a nuclear missile to force a piece of paper between on policies, and even if you do get the party you 'want' then they ignore what you wanted and do what they are told anyway. 

 

In some ways I find the Chinese system at least more honest, we can SEE that's corrupt, and they don't even 'play' democracy,  the western conglomerates are just much more sneaky, in my opinion.

11 years 33 weeks ago
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mArtiAn:

  In agreement with you on every point there, Hugh, but sheeple? You haven't been reading Bill Cooper have you? I think it was he who originally coined that term. I thought you were opposed to such conspiracy theorist types.

11 years 33 weeks ago
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lokethebloke:

This is an education, thank you very much.  More power to your elbows.

11 years 33 weeks ago
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11 years 33 weeks ago
 
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Shifu

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am the guy who never makes sense and i think i will be the one to die in a fun way.......................LOL

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11 years 33 weeks ago
 
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Ha! Good sh*t! My Dog tags: Married Chinese, beautiful baby daughter, been here 4 years, hate China, waiting for US economy to rebound, miss the clean environment, whatever you say about China is fine with me.

lokethebloke:

Going back to the BIGGEST polluter on the planet, wise move.

What happens if I say the same about the great US of A? Will I get shot, insulted and abused? I promise to only tell the truth.

11 years 33 weeks ago
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Chaching:

Are you an idiot or something lokeyblokey. Look, we don't litter in our own backyard. Yes we may consume more energy per capita than anyone else. Consumer driven economies will definitely create more trash. Duh! However, it is most definitely cleaner than China. I'll let you figure out how we dispose of our trash. Yes, I will admit to the USA having more violent gun crime. But statistically, you're more likely to be killed walking your dog in China. So, these freaks u hear about walking into a movie theatre and lighting up the place, is truly a statistical outlier and should be omitted. We call it media hype, and it creates a good talking point for the "talking heads." If my home country was the UK, I would probably die from an inflammed liver inside a pub, if my home country was in Africa, then I would probably die of aids or genocide. I'm not degrading either place, both have their beauties. The point is, what I said about the USA being a clean nation compared to China, is most definitely true. Your comment has no factual basis or rationality. As a matter of fact, your ignorance was produced for one main purpose, to try to start a verbal fight. Ha! so you think Americans are the aggressors? I'm going to single you out as a person, not as an English bloke. I like the UK, and its people, so you must be one of the swine that gives the UK a bad rep. Go back to your "This Is England" lifestyle, strap on your combat boots and red suspenders, shave your head and call yourself a progressive thinker. I'm surprised because most of the Brits I have met here have a ton more wits than you do. Do you know why we use guns? Because it is efficient! It gets the job done. Hmm. perhaps this is the reason why our "special forces" are better than the rest of the world. I hate to admit to military superiority in this case because the cause is often times unjustifiable, but the fact remains. My country can take over your country at exactly 5 PM on a Tuesday. You fluff your feathers like a peaCOCK. Yet, what changes the world? The pen or the sword? The sword does. It always has and always will. Don't ever forget your place in history again. You arrogant coward!

11 years 32 weeks ago
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lokethebloke:

Here we go again.  

 

The reason that your country is relatively clean is because, like many other 'developed' countries, your country exports a large proportion of it's rubbish (trash) to undeveloped countries around the world.   The polluter is still the polluter.

 

As for being shot, I was referring to the prospect that I would be metaphorically shot for commenting on your answer, sorry for not being specific.   You obviously 'jumped the gun' so to speak.   You refer to the many incidents of mass shootings which have occurred in recent years as a statistical glitch and just media hype.   Organised by Fox News, no doubt .

 

Yes I am a person, a person who cares, some say too much, I'm naive enough to believe that one person can make a difference.  I certainly hold no allegiance to any country, proud to be Welsh because we can sing and play pretty good rugby but certainly not patriotic, I'm an internationalist at heart.

 

Need I say more.   Words will always 'outgun' bullets.

11 years 32 weeks ago
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Chaching:

If you were in a dog fight, you couldin't gracefully bow out of it after being cornered. Especially if you started it. This is not a time to tuck tail and run. Not patriotic, not anything. Perhaps I was right about the coward part. Welsh huh! Yeah, I'm f*cking American, but I bet you 100 British pounds I've got more royalty running through my veins than you do. I sure as hell would not want you to be my military general. You're more suitable to teach little Chinese children how to speak English. Which is a joke in China! You just don't get it yet, because you're the punch line!

11 years 32 weeks ago
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lokethebloke:

Wow, you are angry.

 

As for a fight, I wouldn't start one in the first place, I'm just holding up a mirror to your aggressive and destructive stance here. You write,"whatever you say about China is fine with me", obviously it's not fine to say anything about the great US of A. Just bear in mind I just commented about the pollution, you brought up the other subjects. 

 

I couldn't teach a 'grandmother to suck eggs' let alone children to speak english but I could teach a general a thing or two..

 

As for being patriotic and your reference to our dear royal family, they're just an expensive tourist attraction.   I would certainly not want to be associated with them in any way , shape or form.  No doubt your heroes are Rumsfelt and Chaney. Mine is certainly not Blair the poodle.

 

Why do you consider my honest opinions a joke.   I believe that they're quite valid and offer a balance on this site.   I know that they're not welcome here by many, but perhaps someone will stop to reflect now and again.

 

Every time you post you make my point for me.   Thank you.

11 years 32 weeks ago
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Chaching:

Yes I’m angry!! Yeah!, you not only disgraced me, but my entire country. You are really confused about your place? Wow! A little late in life don’t you think old man? Look, out here our self identity is limited to our country of origin. If you don’t believe me then ask a black man with an African accent. So, what shall we do now? Hold up another mirror and go back and forth, back and forth? Your mirror means nothing. Rumsfeld (sp) Cheney(sp) and yes I also assume you voted for them too. Or how about Margaret Thatcher. Heck, she’s just old enough for me to vote for her!! Can I vote for Mrs. Margery? Can I, please? Holy shit, at least I know the name of your current prime minister and his bullshit relationships. Geeze, do you know who is president of the usa? Yeah, just a little more important than your precious queen and your puppet of a Prime Min. Let’s move and shake things, you damn brit. Heck, let’s go at it like the boys in Westside story! I’m looking for a good rumble, I want to get stabbed. Angry? You bet. Dangerous? You better double down. What is the cause? China! I need to go home old codger. I need to go home.

11 years 32 weeks ago
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lokethebloke:

I hope when you are sober, you'll be able to re-read your comment.   In the meantime I'll rest my case your honour.   Sleep well.

11 years 32 weeks ago
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11 years 33 weeks ago
 
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Shifu

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Have been here fifteen months and have no intention of returning to the UK apart from the bit of work I have to go back for. I see a lot here that really pisses me off but not more so than in the UK, it's just different things. I have met many Chinese who I like and there  are many who are so blinkered and ignorant I wouldn't want to meet them more than once, I will give anyone a try once. Hugh G. Rection is right about the corruption, at least it is more in the open here, back there democracy is the chance every five years to vote for who you are going to get shafted by next, and the bleating of the sheep at the voting booths is loud but they keep coming back for more everytime. What would I do if I did not stay here, probably find another Asian country or maybe somewhere like Belize. As I say to some of my Chinese people at English corner we all live on one world and boundaries between countries are only there so that some group of power brokers can lay claim to a geographic area. I do think that most people most of the time are fine but wherever you go there are politicians and they are the ones that really screw it up for the rest of us.

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11 years 33 weeks ago
 
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Wow, are women included in this question or it's a men thing?

icnif77:

Question is always about women!angel

11 years 33 weeks ago
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lokethebloke:

It's time for bed now

Sorry hit the wrong button.

11 years 33 weeks ago
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icnif77:

you have buttons on your bed?

11 years 32 weeks ago
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lokethebloke:

They  make it vibrate slowly so that I cam get a good night's sleep

 

11 years 32 weeks ago
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11 years 33 weeks ago
 
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I'm not quite what you described either. I was a short timer (10 months) but I went to China after doing a ton of reading/research about what to expect. I wasn't really surprised by anything, but was never really happy either. I couldn't socialize with anyone outside of the school. I didn't like the location of the city. The idea of traveling alone in China scared me (although I went to Japan and traveled alone without too much of a problem). I made friends, and I would like to hang out with them again, but I don't really want to go back to China. There are other countries I'd like to explore, where it will be easier for me to grasp the language.

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I'm just a retired old fart who has been influenced by the old amma (aye) who looked after me in Singapore in 1950.   I came here three years ago to work on an organic farm in Guandong.   Because of major floods that year, the farm was washed away, along with a number of families and their homes.   During reconstruction I tried to persuade the locals to rebuild homes with rice straw bales, my hidden agenda, just like with any rural culture anywhere in the world, the response was naturally - ' are you bloody stupid, piss off and mind your own business' said in the nicest possible way, of course.

 

Since then, I've spent most of my time traveling to different rural areas trying to obtain the use of land or old buildings to showcase the concept of earthquake proof, super insulated, sustainable homes.   It's bloody hard work but I have found an amazing amount of enthusiasm from students and parents alike to help me design and build these very cheap and surprisingly cosy dwellings.   Some people grab hold of the wrong end of the stick and offer to build me a house in their village in order to have me as the 'token' foreigner.   I have declined quite a few, and I explain that I don't have a face to loose and hope that they won't be too offended.   Most just laugh, showing that they do have a sense of humour.

 

I intend to spend what little time I've got left spreading the 'gospel' according to 'rice straw', in the hope that China will cut down on burning the stuff. even if it's just by a little bit.   From small acorns grow giant oaks.

 

During my military days in the late 60s I had an opportunity to come to Hong Kong, which in those days because of so many sanpans, was a floating cesspit.   Look what a gentle British influence has produced there.  Perhaps a more gentle approch here could work wonders. Sadly for me but certainly for the benefit of the world my talents were required elsewhere and I found myself 'fighting' the Russians in Europe.

 

I'm very suspisious of some people's motives here and this site causes me to be very suspicious of what I see as an unelected committee, cabinet, or politburo, call it what you will, of pro western, mainly United states, propagandists.    I see what I BELIEVE, no proof, to be an orchestrated attempt to belittle the efforts that China is trying to make to improve the lot of it's people it's an enormous task, they need help and constructive criticsism, not ridicule and hate.    When I see what I perceive to be petty hate and the kettle calling the pot black I'll just pop in a mirror or two.

 

We all know that China's development has been delayed by what has happened here in the last 150 years, and by what's happening now, but things are improving.   This is not a basket ball game, there's no instant gratification.   Change will take time, and as in all countries around the world, there are some clever people around (perhaps Giad is one of them) who can and do make a difference, the Chinese need help and encouragement.   I just hope that the unelected politburo here will change their policy.

 

Somebody has been putting something in the water  a little bit of transparency and kindness is coming through on this site.

mArtiAn:

  Here here sir, and more power to you. I know that there is no difference to be made in this world, but for the one we make with our own life. You gotta say it like you mean it, even if it seems like you're saying it to yourself.

  Vegetable rights and peace!

  Yeh, I know, that last bit kind of played down the sincerity of the first bit. But bit by bit I mean each bit, an' even when I bit off more than I can chew I get the bit between my teeth, hit the switch, flip the scrip', and sweet as a nut, I spit the pip. Whatever the hell that means, i'm drunk, I don't know.

11 years 33 weeks ago
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lokethebloke:

Time for bed now.   Thanks for that

 

11 years 33 weeks ago
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Hugh.G.Rection:

Well said sir, a thumbs up to balance the stupid thumbs down.

 

Change takes time and it needs people to want to effect a change, if we all said we can't do anything, nothing will happen. I admire your positivity, especially as personally, I am much more sceptical.

11 years 32 weeks ago
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I think second one is good as as we have to bear others as well and hard work to attain our goals. As there are many opportunities at least bear smoke around us Smile

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Shifu

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I am the second one. I guess marriage seals the deal really in making you a long timer.

 

I take one day at a time, and well as long as I'm happy I'm going to stay.

 

My country hasn't changed much in the years I've been here, so there's nothing appealing that makes me want to go back to my old life...

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i think i'm the last type 

i came here with high hopes but at the moment i'm not really happy with life here in general so looking for other opportunities elsewhere 

I respect the culture but damn it's so different from anywhere else and i can't really adapt to most of the things here in China, even after 1 year

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10 years 25 weeks ago
 
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Shifu

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First one with a hint of second. I have a wife but I wouldn't say I'm insulted by offensive things that people say about China. 

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Shifu

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I have turned into a proper jaded old git. (only 30 though)

I am married to a Chinese woman and have a little one on the way, however, I hate this place with a fervent passion I would not have known possible.

If it was not for the love of my wonderful wife and the fact that she does not actually want to leave quite yet, I would have departed without a backward glance about four months after I arrived for the second time. (first time I spent 18 months here as an adventurer)

I cannot wait for the day when I can give two fingers to this backwards/inwards looking hell-hole.

10 years 25 weeks ago
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I'm a level 22 mid-timer (7 years of experience on the Chinese realm), whose image of China was destroyed by the post-Olympics Beijing. Seriously, I thought being on holidays here would be more fun than when I lived here, but no. It still blows.

 

Qingdao is a pretty kewl place though. So far so good.

 

I wouldn't stay here forever (hell no), but I would definitely stay on the Chinese WoW servers. We have the best damned guild ever, and I'm not farming everything all over again.

 

There are good sides to China, there are bad sides (like everything about Beijing), so I guess going back and forth between Ye Olde Motherland and here would be the best thing to do.

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10 years 25 weeks ago
 
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Level 95 basement dweller

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4 years 43 weeks ago
 
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Shifu

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Iam number one

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4 years 43 weeks ago
 
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A:  "... through ..."?  Only "through" comes to mind is "S
A: "... through ..."?  Only "through" comes to mind is "Shenzhen agent can connect you with an employer, who's authorized to hire waigouren ... and can sponsor Z visa." It's not like every 10th person you meet in Shenzhen's hood can sponsor work visa ...  The only way to change from student to labourer visa is just a regular way by: 1. Finding an employer, who'll apply for an Invitation letter; 2. Exit China and apply for Z visa in your home country's Chinese embassy; 3. Enter China in 30-days after Z visa was stamped into your travelling instrument ...As I am aware, you won't be able to switch to Working permit by remaining in China....,so make ready for a return to your home .... -- icnif77