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Posts: 8

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Q: Finding job back in home country (US) while still in China possible? If so, how?

I can't believe this isn't being asked more. I've been scouring every corner of the internet for a while now ( a long while), and have found two people who have raised this question. One of them was me over a year ago on this very board.

 

I'm looking for advice and any other information on how this can be done, if it can be done. Everyone else that I've known that has come to China has either been a student and returned to continue studying, has come with an American company, or has stayed in China to work. Apparently, no one else in my position has made it out alive, which makes this an absolute pain in ass to figure out.

 

I've been in China for a few years now, and the only reason I've really yet to leave is mostly because of this issue. I am very reluctant to wait around until I return home (my parents home, anyways) to start applying for jobs as it could take weeks, potentially months, to get any bites. My sanity can only take so much of doing nothing, and I want to reduce the in-between time as much as possible. Would employers take me seriously, even if I stated I was moving back permanently? What chances would I have of landing a decent job back in the U.S. with no relevant experience, but having become fluent in Chinese (speaking, reading, writing), and teaching for a few years? Studied Political Science, by the way. I can't even begin to imagine having to work some menial job that essentially requires no education, and probably pays less than I make here, just to say I have experience in X industry. Internships are basically out as I wouldn't have the money to last an unpaid one.

 

I am beyond stuck, yet I feel I have to be doing something NOW, before I rot into oblivion. This is the only place I can think to ask, so any (positive) feedback would be very much appreciated.

11 years 10 weeks ago in  Business & Jobs - China

 
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Posts: 9631

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I would do the basics. Create a linked in profile, get your CV online, maybe add it to e.g. Monster.com, and then have low expectations. A future employer will (almost) always want to see you in person, especially the better the job the more lengthy the process. 

 

As I se it, there is three options

 

Hang in China and look for jobs in China

Hang in China and look for jobs at home

Go back, get a McJob while looking for jobs. 

 

Without knowing the job market in your field, I would think the latter option has the best prognosis. In any case, try to think outside the box and see where your talents can be applied. 

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11 years 10 weeks ago
 
Posts: 4935

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There's an alternate idea: save enough money to pay for two or three years of in-state tuition. Learn new skills to make yourself valuable to your future employers, and look for jobs in the mean time. You'll keep busy, and do fine.

Many colleges only cost about 3.5k per semester. You could even save for just one, or two years as well. Community colleges cost even less. Some places only cost 2.1k.

That's one option. You'll learn more, and may have a much better future then you intended. Just an idea, mate.

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11 years 10 weeks ago
 
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not sure of the age limit but if your chinese is good , you can take a test to work for the state department in washington dc, only place that has jobs right now and you can take the test at the embassy here before leaving. had a friend ,young guy about 33 do this and seems happy with the job.

GuilinRaf:

Would yo u know the name of the test?

Thanks!

11 years 10 weeks ago
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ambivalentmace:

foreign service officer test and if you pass mandarin 17 points is added to your score for employment.

11 years 10 weeks ago
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11 years 10 weeks ago
 
Posts: 205

Governor

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Good question as I'm in the same boat as you, not wanting to go back and wait around (losing hair and sleep while going into debt) looking for a meaningful job with decent wages.  I think you have to ask yourself the questions:  How bad do i want to go back and how much longer am I willing to stay? 

 

If you decide you are willing to stay just a while longer then getting some solid real work experience that would count in America while you are here that would probably be the best way to go. Work there a while building your career and then go back.  Even then you might have to wait around though.  You could also check into doing a master's program online at a reputable American university.  That would probably help your chances a bit as well.   Best of luck to you. 

 

 

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11 years 10 weeks ago
 
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Governor

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Just to make a couple of things clear, I feel I really need a break from China for a while. It will be nearly 4 years in July when my contract ends (was studying Chinese initially). I've stayed about a year longer than I anticipated thus far. I would possibly consider staying, only if there was a really good offer, but seeing as how there aren't many entry-level  positions here, and anything above that requires a specific skill set, I suspect it would be just as difficult as finding something back stateside. I've dug a pretty big hole I think, mostly due to uncertainty of what to do, and no help. 

 

@Scandinavian

Think I'd have a bit of trouble swallowing my pride on the third option there. Pretty much all my friends from college are now light years ahead of me on paper in the corporate world (I'm 25, almost 26), even the ones who did quite poorly in school and didn't really care. I feel as though I need to go back with something that can show for the time I've spent here. I wouldn't mind taking a trip back to the states for an interview if I was confident I could be the person for the job. Don't know how to express that to hiring managers, though. 

 

I don't even know what my field is exactly. I suppose quite a few people I've known here with similar skills have gone into HR, but I'm not even sure what other companies would hire me as I don't have the relevant skills on paper.

 

@Hulk

Don't make enough here to save money for use back home, unfortunately (though money hasn't been my goal here). I've thought about school, and even applying for financial aid, but the idea of being poor for another 2-3 years just to be more viable in the job-market is...depressing. Especially considering my business major friends back home are seemingly doing well enough, despite their 2.something GPA's and lackluster attitude towards everything. 

 

@ambivalentmace

I might look into that. Didn't know they had walk-in tests for the State Department. I've checked online at USA.gov website, but it's always the traditional lengthy hiring process that, more than likely, needs you to be stateside. I consider my Chinese at a professional level, though I still make simple errors constantly. I've ran out of time on that end though, so can only work with what I got now. 

 

 

Hulk:

I'm 29. While I have good grades in College, I'm still okay with being poor for a while. My goal is medical school, though China has put a huge damper in it. They say pride comes before a fall, and they sure are right.

 

I, too, came here to study, and also dug myself a hole since most companies say there are too many problems associated with an X visa, and want me to return home before I can get a job here. Can't really do that.

11 years 10 weeks ago
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11 years 10 weeks ago
 
Posts: 703

Shifu

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Good advice from others.

Also, if you are going back, you can certainly line up a bunch of interviews before your return. And unless you have family to stay with or some cash, I wouldn't return until you have 3 or 4 interviews lined up, and you should also have a plan and a reserve just in case it takes you a month to get a job. You have to think about worst case scenerio, and make a plan.

And don't cut yourself short, you are still young, spending time in China at your age and learning ways of the world and Mandarin is not a bad thing, and can also look good too on paper, especially after a few years. If your plan to return is not strong, then simply stay in China, find a better job where you can save at least a little, study Chinese more as that can prove to be useful in the future. And be sure to get a reference from someone in China too, that you can use.

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11 years 10 weeks ago
 
Posts: 205

Governor

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I think Hulk's idea is the best for you.  You said your grades were good and working here you are probably poor enough to qualify for some government assistance so why not apply to do  master's degree back in the States?  While there you can search for work as well. 

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11 years 8 weeks ago
 
Posts: 26

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Finding a job in the US, depends on the individual person . If he is picky, then he will not find a job regardless on  what ever job it maybe.

 

I studied my Master'sw degree in the US. Took the US teacher's exams to be certified. I taught 9 years with the school district. Came to China for adventure & seek my roots.

 

I am sick & tired of the lies & discrimination in China. I am going back to the US.

 

I have a teaching job with the School Dstricts waiting for me when I get home. I am US Credential License Subject teacher.

 

 

 

 

 

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9 years 28 weeks ago
 
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That's a great question. I recently have to solve the same problem, but to go back to France with my wife with the least painful transition.

Since 2011, French public administration allows to declare a foreign company with no establishment in France, and then declare workers of that companies with French residency. You can then keep working for your Chinese company, but under the French tax system. You pay way more taxes in France than in China, but it nicely solves the job problem. Of course, you have to prepare this with your boss, and your job have to be something that can be done remotely.

Short of this, my plan was to candidate for public education positions. In Europe, those positions are not the best paid, especially with two people on a single income, but it's stable, enough to live decently (you might not buy a home, but you can rent, eat and pay the bills) and it leaves some time to look for something paying more. Usually, you candidate to job openings, and then you go for the interview, so this approach would have required a round-trip from China to France.

McJob would have been a last resort, as I can hardly convince my wife that living in France is better if we have to live from paycheck to paycheck with a lower life standard than in China.

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9 years 28 weeks ago
 
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I'm a computer IT by trade with a Computer Science BS Degree, but been teaching English for 12 years (Better money & Hours), and that degree got me 70% less then what I'm making in China. There is NO way in Gods name that I would return to the U.S, well I would visit. My Chinese wife and I bought a house & car here already, had our kids here, and this might surprise a lot of people, but we are REALLY happy in Shenzhen, China.  The job market in the U.S won't change for 30 years or until there's anew world war.

Hulk:

I make over $100k a year with my IT non-degree. Haven't even finished college, and I just got a raise increasing my salary beyond 100k.

 

You're doing it way wrong.

9 years 28 weeks ago
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Hulk:

Furthermore, if you bothered to put that degree to use from the time you left, to now, you'd be making over $200k USD per year.

9 years 28 weeks ago
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ironman510:

I hear ye, but maybe were in a different area of IT. I mostly specialize in circuitry repair. Applied to many comapnies, got low offers and didn't really get a chance to use my skills from the past, only at LG in Korea.

9 years 28 weeks ago
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expatlife26:

The important thing you said there is that you're happy. Whether or not you are at a monetary advantage

9 years 28 weeks ago
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Hulk:

I agree, it's important to be happy, and Shenzhen is a really good city.

 

But since you specialized in circuitry repair, go with computer programming. Learn programming in your spare time and you'll get a job...

9 years 28 weeks ago
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9 years 28 weeks ago
 
Posts: 2878

Shifu

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The good news for you is that you're still just 25-26, so it's not too late yet.

But it's almost too late so it's good that you feel that pressure to GTFO now.

 

Honestly if you don't have prospects for a non-teaching career here and you don't want to be teaching your whole life you need to leave immediately. If you have friends with good jobs than network with them. See if they can help you slot into an entry level gig.

 

I think you're almost too old for that to work but theres still maybe a year left you can make that work. 

 

That's why I think it's so dangerous to come and teach in China as a fresh grad. You age out of career starting points without getting the experience to get a senior role. If it looks hard to start a good career in the west...it's virtually impossible here now.

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9 years 28 weeks ago
 
Posts: 2878

Shifu

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Oh and to answer your question...probably not. Sorry to be pessimistic but what separates you as a mid 20s soft-degree graduate with no relevant experience from all the other mid 20s soft-degree graduates with no relevant experience WHO LIVE IN AMERICA? You have to ask yourself why someone would take a flier on someone 1000s of miles away when there are way too many people looking around right in front of them.

 

One of the things that scared me so much about being a young teacher, is that it lets you kinda feel like youre accomplishing something when you're not. (i'm assuming you're a teacher btw apologies if you're not) It sounds cool to say you're living abroad...but really it's something that you're WILLING to do not something you're ABLE to do. whatever life experience people feel they get from it, It doesn't really set you apart career wise in any way. So unless you really like it...you SHOULD be scared you'll get stuck in it forever if that's what you are doing and you don't like it. I sure as hell was.

 

If I were you...i'd go for a masters in accounting or something else practical like that. One option that no one has mentioned is that a few big state schools offer 100% online programs in the 25K-30K range. You'll have to take the GMAT as well prior to admission. It's a standardized test similar to the SAT. Not too hard.

 

I thought about doing this myself, but because i have 4 years of experience as a financial analyst I decided to go for the MBA. Which I would not recommend for someone with no experience. There's way too many MBAs out there with zero experience so it won't help you that much. 

 

The idea there is that even if you're stuck teaching. All you have to do is make enough to generate 8000-10000 RMB a month to pay for the program. And while you do it you'll get good at it and can start looking for real jobs. That might be your best realistic option to break out of the china trap my friend.

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9 years 28 weeks ago
 
Posts: 1098

Shifu

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I would have to agree with a lot of the above posters, especially Hulk. You and I are in similar positions although it sounds like your Chinese is much better than mine ut I've found a way to get more income/savings out of working in education in China. It seems to me that the options are as follows: 

 

1) apply to grad schools in the states while still in China - you can take your GRE etc. here and support yourself teaching until it's time to start school. If you like teaching but want something more stable, apply for a masters in education or a specific subject that would allow you to teach back in the states or at international schools around the world (I'm seriously considering this option) 

 

2) Go back to the states and apply for entry level office jobs. The problem being it could take awhile as you said and you could be stuck living at home unemployed. 

 

3) stay in China teaching and work your way up to making 20-40k rmb/month teaching - it can be dangerous as expatlife  says but if you love teaching and have a good work ethic you can live a good life and save a substantial amount. This is what I'm doing now - I'm fully aware of the risks that expatlife mentioned but saving 3-4k US per month is not bad at all. 

 

4) use your Chinese and try to network into an entry level corporate job in China - probably tough but not impossible 

 

As for me, I'm looking at a combination of number 1 and number 3. I'm willing to give myself a few more years here saving up the rmb ONLY because I would want to study something relevant to education back in the states. If your interests don't lie in education, it is career suicide to teach ESL long term. Even if you want to go into teaching, too many years here won't really do much for you. I'm hoping that having a famous medical school on my resume will look better than EF or something seeing as I teach skills and not just oral English but even then more than a couple years won't add anything to the resume. Feel free to PM me if you want to chat. I'm also 25 and a poli sci major from a well-known school in the states. 

expatlife26:

well listen when I talk about the risks of teaching, i'm not saying that typical fear-monger BS. If you're not a dumbass and have a good attitude you can do fine...and can make decent $ even if you are kinda stuck in APAC while you do it.

 

I think the biggest risk in teaching is that people come here and the lifestyle is ok for 22 but just doesn't really grow with them. They like the free time and the attention they get so they just tolerate the job and then find themself stuck in it.

 

That said if somebody really likes it good on them...but it might be nice to be 25 with lots of free time. But i imagine it really sucks being 30+ with limited prospects.

 

9 years 28 weeks ago
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dongbeiren:

@expat I basically agree with all of your points. After re-reading my post I see how you could have taken my remarks about you as sarcastic but that wasn't my intention. I'm 25 and have already outgrown the typical ESL lifestyle. I now work twice the hours for four times the pay that I had when I started. And yea... what now? Will I be content grinding medical writing, TOEFL and college prep classes for the next 20 years? That's the big question. The money is pretty good but yea.... one can get stuck like you said. It would be easier to walk away if I didn't legitimately enjoy working with my students and having financial freedom to save, travel, eat out a lot etc. And I have little free time. Like I said, have already outgrown the ESL life. So I empathize a lot with the OP. 

9 years 28 weeks ago
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expatlife26:

If you're making enough to do it, which it sounds like you are I would recommend maybe going back to school or getting certified in something practical.

 

Get a masters in business information systems or something. I mean it sucks having to work for a living...just in general. Might as well be doing something that pays right? 

9 years 28 weeks ago
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dongbeiren:

Expat, that's probably good advice. Right now I'm looking at 

 

1) continue doing what I'm doing for another couple years and re-evaluating (probably then doing 2 or 3)  

 

2) applying to law school (I've already started and have recs from college profs, just need to take the LSAT) and I"d only go if I could get into a top 20-30 school in the US given the poor legal job market.

 

3) getting a masters in education/history or maybe a combo that would make me qualified to teach at private/boarding schools in the US or international schools in China or somewhere else in Asia.

 

Like I said, I love teaching. But I also like money. Oh the dilemma!

 

I appreciate your insights.

9 years 28 weeks ago
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9 years 28 weeks ago
 
Posts: 1300

Shifu

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Congratulations on discovering that your poli sci degree is worthless in the real world, though if you hadn't come to China you may have discovered that sooner. If you really must go back to the US, you might just have to bite the bitter bullet that you'll have to start in an entry level job. Otherwise your options as I see them are as follows:

1. continue teaching English, assuming you are indeed teaching English. If you're sick of China you can go to other countries. If you're doing something else it might help us in giving you advice about your career prospects.

2. find a job where you can use your Chinese language skills, assuming you've been intensely studying it this whole time. I heard instant translators can make big money, but your Chinese level needs to be such that you can translate from English to Chinese and vice versa instantly in the middle of the sentence. Or you might be able to find a job in some factory town translating for foreign companies who run their operations there. I actually did that briefly after teaching but the factory environment and loneliness sucked the life out of me.

3. save up enough money to fund further education to learn a skill for the job market.

 

Hope this helps.

 

expatlife26:

Maybe he should find a good recruiter! Before they abandoned us, the CFTU said there is no need for a Z visa (it's not valid for entry into heaven after all right?) and to get the first TEFL he can find no matter the cost!

9 years 28 weeks ago
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9 years 28 weeks ago
 
Posts: 205

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I think some people are over reacting a bit.  No, the job market is not that good these days and teaching ESL doesn't get you far by itself.  But some of you guys are acting like this kid is done all but done when he is only 26 years old.  Fact is you've got your whole life ahead of you at that point and lots of options.  Make connections, find part time work, do internships, volunteer, take classes, build your resume, sell your time here as a positive thing (which it is) and make it fit in with whatever you do next somehow.  Not everyone back home looks down on ESL teaching as much as some would have you believe.  I know a guy who taught ESL for 3-4 years here and left when he was 27 or 28 and got a nice job at the state department right after that.  Tons of ways to still build yourself and get out of teaching (if that is what you want).    

expatlife26:

I don't think anybody back home looks down on it at all. Where I do think in China/APAC yes it is a stigma for moving into other roles...if only because theres such a sharp divide. If someone's NOT an esl teacher they're just as likely to be something really cool like Finance Manager or Brand Marketing Director...something that by definition requires years of positive experience in a very well defined role. There's very few people in the middle...though to be fair I am.

 

Back home though...people will usually think its cool  on a personal level. But it just isn't super valuable experience. You apply for a job it might make you a more interesting person than the guy with 4 years at starbucks...but when they say "great story, but can you handle Oracle Hyperion coding?" You're going to say no. And you'll lose out to the boring guy who has never traveled more than 20 miles in his life but...knows how to support CPM reports with Hyperion code.

 

It's not that the hiring manager back in the US is going to look at you like "how dare this trashy ESL loser pollute my office! He probably couldn't even get a girlfriend in their home country!"

 

It's gonna be more like "interesting guy, shame he doesn't have the skills we need."

 

26 is still young...shit i'm 27 myself. But doors will be starting to close, at least for the traditional entry level positions.

9 years 28 weeks ago
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pbrown22:

I get what you are saying and agree with most of it.  Just think nobody should be so negative to think that a 26 year old is running out of time.  Some doors will close sure but there will be some that open as well just because of your experience here, especially if you took the time to learn Chinese.  Gaining other skills in addition to that is key and that can be done.  No need to panic, just know the road ahead. 

9 years 28 weeks ago
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expatlife26:

I get into this argument with people a lot, I actually think for most people investing a ton of time into learning chinese doesn't get them anywhere professionally.

 

Happy to hear about exceptions but i've never known anybody who came here with no experience career-wise and got themselves started towards something JUST by learning chinese. I'm sure it helps IF you can already do something else (and are basically competitive to do it in the west). But by itself?

 

Unless you want to be "the white guy" at a smaller firm for not a ton of money, what do you bring to a company by being a chinese speaker with no hard skills or experience? To the employer what's the difference between you and the millions of unemployed graduates they produce every year? They speak chinese too! And they don't have that great jobs! You might have a lot to offer in terms of ingenuity but they aren't likely to take a gamble on you just for that.

 

I'm sure it's valuable on a personal level but the time you spend learning that is time you don't spend going back for your masters or really putting thought into starting a business.

 

I mean yeah it's going to be helpful in terms of daily living but I think people kinda get this idea in their head that by just being here and passively learning chinese that they are really getting something out of it in terms of hirability and I just don't see it happen that way in practice. It's just something you can learn here that seems really accessible and is an easy cop-out for chilling out here year after year. Maybe these people are...but to what end? If they just want to have an easier time here that's fine but I think it's misguided to think if they aren't competitive for non-teaching jobs already that it will make them so. 

 

I would absolutely love to hear about somebody who's proved me wrong, I'm not married to my pessimism one bit. But i've never met the history major from a 3rd tier school who now works for Haier or Lenovo doing something really cool because they got really good at speaking chinese. Where they do work there, they had the school background/experience to do it before they came.

9 years 28 weeks ago
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expatlife26:

Oh, exception: Sales.

 

But if you're good at sales you don't go on forums asking for career advice. That's something either you have it or you don't. I really don't to be honest so don't think i'm trying to flatter myself.

 

If you have the personality to be good at sales learning chinese is a good idea. For everyone else, i've never seen it really do much for them career-wise.

9 years 28 weeks ago
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9 years 28 weeks ago
 
Posts: 205

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As far as Chinese goes, It depends.  If you learn to read and write Chinese well while you are here then it can help you considerably in some positions.  I know of several cases like a girl who is doing very well in publishing and others who are working in government and NGO's.  But yeah you are right just speaking it some won't help you career wise.  However, ESL does give you enough free time to be able to actively learn characters and such.  You just gotta be disciplined. 

 

I also agree that investing that much time into Chinese may not be the right path for most people.  But there are other skills you can pick up on the side in your free time.  Just have to have a plan.  Anyway you do make some sense, just don't want someone to be so downcast about their future at such a young age because there are plenty of doors that can still be opened with the right plan.

expatlife26:

I felt that way back when I was 22-23...so I guess even more ridiculous. Anyway I'm not saying he should descend to panicked misery but...he should be insecure about where he is if he doesn't want to be there and there is no clear path out.

 

I sure as hell did...and i'm not there any more. And happier for it.

 

IF someone doesn't like what ESL can offer them they need to get their ass in gear to get out and theres never any time like the present to show some initiative. You say that "he's just 26" but what will be different when he's 30? He's going to be the same person just probably with less energy and more responsibilities. Nothing is going to develop from just waiting it out.

 

Hell I decided to work through my MBA this year for that very reason. At 27. I have the energy to work full time and go to school and no kids to miss out on spending time with while I have ZERO free time for a 2 year period. 

 

The question that this person (who asked this 2 years ago so I guess the hypothetical person who feels the same way) needs to ask is whether they are unhappy because of their ESL career or for some other reason. Cause if you just have a bad work attitude it doesn't matter what you're doing...it's not like corporate office work is super exciting either. (Though their are other benefits...more dating options for one) But for me, getting a career with a clear path for advancement really did make me a lot happier and more content with my life. 

 

I'm not saying theres anything wrong with teaching but if you don't like it...i think it's better to hear that it's not going to get any better so you should feel pressure to get out.

9 years 28 weeks ago
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A: Add-it: Getting into the recruiters ... You could also research a
A:Add-it: Getting into the recruiters ... You could also research any school/job offering posted by the recruiters ... as an example:"First job offering this AM was posted by the recruiter 'ClickChina' for the English teacher position at International School in Jinhua city, Zhejiang Province, China...https://jobs.echinacities.com/jobchapter/1355025095  Jinhua No.1 High School, Zhejiang website has a 'Contact Us' option ...https://www.jinhuaschool-ctc.org ... next, prepare your CV and email it away ..." Good luck! -- icnif77