DrMonkey:

Yeah, and the name of one the two policemen killed while on duty at Charlie Hebdo ? Or the names of the *numerous* people calling to fight salafists entrenched in poor suburbs ? Yup, French of Algerian descent. That chip on your shoulder, you can warm yourself for the whole winter with it.

DrMonkey:

Errr, it hurts me to say it, but you were right on the consequences. So predictable :/ Monde de merde.

RiriRiri:

As I said last week, I would love so much to be wrong, but it's rolling like an opened book and it's a fucking sad circus.

DrMonkey:

George Abitbol said it better

http://youtu.be/pzUVTy4lBPw

Shining_brow:

I still don't see it as part of a false flag operation... more that the government bodies know how to manipulate events to their desire.

Given history, it was obvious that Hedbo was going to come under attack at some stage. The PtB just needed to wait. (otherwise, you'll have to come up with evidence to suggest that the French (or other) government was behind organising these 2 terrorist events at the same time).

Personally, I don't disagree that there are those that are manipulating things on a grander scale, but at the more individual level - ie, the one where these 2 guys their their hands on some AK-47s and go shooting... for something they truly feel they ought to do - is not at the level you're thinking (for this one).

RiriRiri:

By false flag, I never meant that the guys who led the operation weren't jihadists or that their identity or whatever we'll surely discover next is made up. I mean, among a lost generation of unemployed immigrants full of hartred, you'll find perfect candidates for this all over the place, why bother making it up. I'm sure they truly believed they were avenging their prophet and that they were going to finally touch a virgin after that.

What I meant is that the forces that provided them training and money aren't crazy salafists who have a plan of taking over the world using isolated brainwashed morons and their AK-47 slash bomb.

Who in the world with a brain and resources to spend would seriously consider it as a plan (okay, maybe it was the Chinese then)? It's realistically not even enough to create actual short/long term "terror". In what universe would that actually make sense. But yeah, that's the Fox News narrative "they're crazy muslims, don't bother".

So, there again, who actually benefits from what happened? Well, in the short term we already have the beginning of an answer. They even took a family picture in Paris last sunday. All the biggest criminals were there except for one who's so popular everywhere he needs helicopters and armed cars to move around.

As a government, what's the price of getting some positive momentum, and passing nefarious reforms no one would accept otherwise?

As a lobbyist - let's say for GMO, what's the price for getting people to look the other way for a little while?

As a war industrial, what's the price of rebooting the muslim hate?

In a world where people kill for a cigarette, tell me that.

mattsm84:

"What I meant is that the forces that provided them training and money aren't crazy salafists who have a plan of taking over the world using isolated brainwashed morons and their AK-47 slash bomb."

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/jan/14/al-qaida-claims-responsibility-charlie-hebdo-attack-paris

From the article:

"Ansi, the principal ideologue for AQAP, said the “one who chose the target, laid the plan and financed the operation is the leadership of the organisation”, claiming too that Yemeni-American preacher, Anwar al-Awlaki, had given the “leader” of the operation his orders."

"So, there again, who actually benefits from what happened?"

"Passed a law allowing GMO, a decade fucking big NO NO, at the European court. Sure why not, people aren't looking."

"As a lobbyist - let's say for GMO, what's the price for getting people to look the other way for a little while?"

And Aggro-business might have gotten away with it too had it not been for you meddling netizens!

Honestly, this is the problem with arguments from Cui Bono. You end up drawing connections between two groups that have absolutely nothing to do with each other. Connections which on their own they don't make any sense. I mean does anybody really believe that the likes of Monsanto, while certainly bastards, planned the thing to give them cover to pass a GMO bill?

"But yeah, I'm the crazy conspiracy theorist. Sure. And I force fit everything into my line of thinking. Sure sure."

Remove the irony and we have something close to what you're doing here.

RiriRiri:

And yet I keep being right about everything I "predict". Go figure.

I don't make "direct connections" such as claiming this was an overall conspiracy. I'm just pointing at what systematically and constantly keeps happening at the wake of such events, events which are bred, shaped and crafted not by the will of Allah, but by people pushing money around in the right direction.

Like gardening. Plant a cherry tree. You sure can't predict how tall it will grow, no more than you can predict how many cherries it can make, or its total number of leaves. But you can certainly say that it will be a tree, and that it will make cherries.

The GMO story seems quite far fetched, yet it fucking happened and such a time is precisely when it always happens. In normal times, this should make an enormous scandal. But here, it got lucky to have found a place where you usually find some tired car accident stories. If I wasn't such a naive optimist, I'd say there's a market for these things within the completely corrupt Euro parliament and that this time Monsanto won the bid.

Let's take it the other way: who pours money and equipment into "Al Qaeda" and its rebranded fresh new franchise IS?

Shoot this one, I've got dozens of other rhetorical questions down the line til we inevitably get where I want. But you'll get tired before I do cause I know where I'm going.

Because you know, when I say this is rolling like an opened book, I meant it quite literally. Everything was theorized, analyzed and written down back in the 20th century. People just gotta fucking read Huxley, Marx or Orwell among dozens of others instead of just fucking claiming they did, those people didn't just write some funny theories about society, but real road maps for everything that's happening today. Once you have that in mind, hardly anything comes as a surprise.

RiriRiri:

Vague?

A week ago, I said they would try to push a "Patriot Act-ish agenda for shrinking freedoms and increasing police control". What happened is that even the word "Patriot Act" was the main keyword of last week.

A week ago, I said "the shitty national press no one reads anymore will keep its subsidies, no one will say a word now.", and that's exactly what happened, not only an unexpected boost for a gross and unfunny magazine, but also every other press outlet in France are now on high moral grounds and obviously no one will ever question their reason for existing.

When you consider that: the current governing party in France is not "the political right" which never got a chance to "use the attacks as a chance to buttress their arguments for increased public safety at the expense of personal liberty", they are actually the political left- thus the struggle for pushing such an agenda before.

More than that, they also managed to exploit all the power of aforementioned friendly press to actually take all the credit away to the only party who was remotely right about Islamist for decades. What a demonstration of the press and politics sleeping together. What a stunt.

The only thing I didn't mention is that the opportunity would be seized to pass a bunch of nasty laws, which they usually do in summer when people are on vacation. Other than that, dare say I was vague, that's fucking rich.

Now let me ask you another question. You say, "opium, oil, and wealthy donors" (talk to me about vague), with a helping hand from Qatar and Kuwait.

Now tell me, what part of the Coran validates opium trafficking? The same part that validates killing I'm sure.

Another one: What weapons do they use? Who delivers?

Surely such a great organization cannot just survive from looting.

And the last question for now : since we the modern west always find the solution of everything with a good detonation, why not just bombing the shit of all aforementioned countries? Especially Qatar, what the fuck is this "country" anyway.

Okay, now, 'bout your last paragraph, you obviously intend to make a point about me being a blind fanatic. Nice coating, we're reaching the Godwin point, all is in fucking place for driving this to nowhere, nice job really.

Might as well ask things directly: "Are you a deluded fanatic ready to empower anything fitting your little fantasies including Satan riding a Raptor with a Jetpack".

I'm not going to glorify it with an answer. That's not the kind of question you ask when you're willing to actually debate. But nice try.

mattsm84:

I'm going to keep this short. I've made my points and don't really see any point in discussing this further with you.

"A week ago, I said they would try to push a "Patriot Act-ish agenda for shrinking freedoms and increasing police control". What happened is that even the word "Patriot Act" was the main keyword of last week."

Nope, that was the one that was obvious.

"A week ago, I said "the shitty national press no one reads anymore will keep its subsidies, no one will say a word now.", and that's exactly what happened,"

La Monde, for example, has been less than favorable to the idea.
http://www.lemonde.fr/police-justice/article/2015/01/12/la-tentation-d-un-patriot-act-a-la-francaise_4554308_1653578.html

"When you consider that: the current governing party in France is not "the political right" which never got a chance to "use the attacks as a chance to buttress their arguments for increased public safety at the expense of personal liberty"

The left has said that it might push some laws in the future while its the UMP that has been pushing for something patriot act like.

"Now tell me, what part of the Coran validates opium trafficking?"

Does it need to? Its enough that AQ makes a great deal of its $ traffic opium out from Afghanistan.

"What weapons do they use? Who delivers?"

Are you so naive to think that a black market for weapons doesn't exist?

"why not just bombing the shit of all aforementioned countries? Especially Qatar, what the fuck is this "country" anyway."

For not tightening up their banking regulations? Again, not really worth discussing.

"you obviously intend to make a point about me being a blind fanatic."

Yes, I think that you've adopted an untenable position and are defending it uncritically. That was the first thing I called you out on here.

Now, until you give me more than assertions and innuendo, that where we remain.

RiriRiri:

Oh, you used to say I was vague, now you promoted me to obvious. That's progress. Though from the comments I got last week it didn't seem that obvious, quite the opposite, but I guess today's weather forecast seen from today always seem obvious.

I agree with you, no need to pursue further, let me keep being vague and obvious, which means right, and you keep calling bullshit on my obviousness (afterwards, so it's most obvious indeed). I'm fine with that.

Maybe one day you'll trap me into a Godwin rhetoric.