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Q: Is it a given that salary increases when signing on for another year?
Opinions and experiences with this issue welcomed.
If both parties are happy and there hasn't been any dramas then is a salary increase reasonable when signing on for another year?
Have you done/tried this before?
What happened?
10 years 16 weeks ago in Teaching & Learning - China
i know at private schools its almost automatic. when it comes to government schools and universities, they won't mention anything. normally they have a budget for the foreigner's salary. sometimes they can't or won't be willing to raise it. but where there is a will, there's a way. i've found through my personal experiences, that you can always ask for other "benefits." for example, a raise in the travel expense, living costs, food allowance, etc. a few government schools here were unwilling to raise the salary for a few foreigners here recently. the foreigners assumed if they held fast and demanded the increase for the new contract, the school would give in. the school didn't. they found new foreigners to replace them. so be careful. but if you do a good job at your school, and the students and faculty recognize it, i'm sure they will do what it takes to keep you if it's reasonable.
It should be but it's not a given. Hence, I didn't sign a new contract with the training school I was at.
Nothing's given, but if you're popular with your students, you have something to negotiate with.
What do you make compared to other teachers you work with? If anyone is making more than you then it shouldnt be an issue, if you push and they refuse then you miht need to look inward a bit cuz you know theyll pay that kind of money.
If your already the highest paid or close, itll be more difficult but possible as your making the most already so you must be valuable. It does create problems if the teachers have too much of a gap so they might resist, but should cave.
Also, i know everything thinks they deserve a million per month, but you should look at the situation. Do you really feel like you deserve more? What value do you bring that others couldnt, look at the schools situation andndecide if you should even ask.
I have gotten one after every year, but last time i signed up for a great contract and in reality did far less work then expected for my salary. My contract is also up and its a given i will stay,
but i would feel super uncomfortable and undeserving asking for more money now.
mike695ca:
btw, what idiot is down voting these legitmate questions? How could that question actually get voted down? Lots of good questions have it, ive noticed. Nothing that could remotly be misconstrued as opinionated or contraversial.....
Paulberger:
been thinking the same thing. i think someone with a grudge with everybody is going around down voting everything they can. but it really doesn't matter, the down vote doesn't make good questions and answer any less useful. it just proves there's an idiot here.
royceH:
My current schedule is really good and the school doesn't interfere with me in any way. What I do in my classes is completely up to me. Either they don't give a stuff or they're happy with what I do.
I'm the only foreign teacher at my school, so no comparing of salary can be done.
The time for re-negotiating will come during next semester and I think an increase would be reasonable.
Never had a day off, never missed a class, never even been late, despite the 17k distance from my abode.
Think I'll go for a 12% increase.
mike695ca:
good luck! As a capitalist i think a free agent like yourself should try to get every penny you can. I hope you get millions!
royceH:
Thanks Mike. However, 12% of little doesn't millions make. But I'm buoyed by your support so I think I'll crack another coldy....Woohooo!!
Public sector teaching jobs don't give a damn when it comes to renewal time. You could be the best teacher in the world, and if they feel like no raise, then there will be no raise. It's just all a shoot of the dice with this one but even the best case scenario is a not a great one by Western standards.
If you want decent raises, then stay in the private sector with all of the angst that that brings. If you want some kind of stability, and I mean only, some kind, then stick with the public sector and in most cases wages less than the average day worker in China currently makes.
mike695ca:
This isnt a disagreement but an actual question. Whats the big difference in security between the two? I dont get it at all. Besides, ive never known anyone that couldnt get fired and get a job of some sort the next day. So why is everyone so worried about security all the time?
juanisaac:
In terms of job security, I would say it's a roll of the dice for both. This past summer the foreign teacher at the middle school across town from me was fired.
It surprised me since she was a native speaker, a former teacher in the U.S.A., a female, and she worked in a small town in China. I still have no clue what she did to get herself fired since females like her are hard to find.
Paulberger:
i've found that public schools are more picky, because they can be. a lot of private schools hire just about any foreigner they can for the face. there were three foreigners working at a public school here that were all fired recently for whatever reason. i think since many foreigners want to work for public schools, its much easier for them to find foreigners.
juanisaac:
Hey Paul. I agree with you in your comment. However, I think the public schools in bigger cities can be picky. I live in a rural town in Jiangsu, and things get boring really quickly and schools have to act like private schools sometimes.. The 1 Middle School has only had two foreign teachers in the past 8 years. One high school I worked for in Jiangsu, another small town, goes some years without a foreign teacher. These schools are less picky, much less.
Add to all this the pollution, the tighter immigration laws, still low salaries and China will have more illegal teachers and less legal teachers. The government might have raised the ante, but they have also created another serious problem of teachers here on a non-Z visa, i.e. the 22 year old English girl that lives close to me that needs the school's approval on who she can be friends with. I was "approved" by her school- *&*^%!
mike695ca:
but again, why do most people prefer to work at a public school? Is it the low hours? Private schools offer low hours as well, i was under the impression that pay was lower in public as well. So whats the big draw?
Paulberger:
@juanisaac it probably is a city by city basis. im sure in more rural areas it probably is more beneficial to work at a private school than a public. as for illegal foreigners, i think most public schools can steer clear of this, its the privates that mainly hire them on business visas and what not. i often wanted to go teach in a little rural place though. i think it would be cool to be the only foreigner in a small place. how is your life in the city? @mike my main draw to public school was the huge amount of paid vacation time. 2 months for summer, and i got 3.5 months for winter. weekends free. salary is a bit lower, more you more than make up for it with privates. i started my own little class with like 15 kids. 4 hours a week pays more than a private school ever did here for me. but, to each their own.
Mate, I am in the private sector and I renegotiate my contract every year and I get a raise. Because we have an overtime clause the other way around a raise is negotiating less working hours. For example, we start here at 25 hours a week after which time you get paid 100RMB an hour. So I after 3 years I am at 21 hours plus a raise. There are a couple of teachers here who get a bit of overtime, about 5 hours a week and that equates to 2000RMB a month which, in my opinion, is substantially more than what they might have got as a raise. One teacher last year was working 42 hours a week due to a teacher shortage and that's about 7000RMB a month for him!
Good luck. I tend not to be greedy and am thankful that my working hours are around 17 - 20 a week and temper my request for more money based on those hours!
dom87:
isnt 25hours normally like 38 teaching lessons (assuming 40min lessons)?
hard to get any overtime work if you dont wanna work 7 days a week
No, I worked for my company for 5 years, every year got 200 for the salary added on and 100 added for the attendance bonus, but after the 5th year my boss said: "sorry there's a salary limit.", I was pissed inside but happy with the job security, friends, school and working visa.
An old saying: Don't become to expensive for your company, because you'll be the first to go.
Scandinavian:
Although I agree there is another possibly less old saying "Don't sell yourself too cheap, the company will spend the money on someone else"
A balance between the two is the way to go. A salary limit is BS, unless someone also comes with "a limit to increase in living cost/inflation"
dom87:
if you are easy to replace then there will always be a salary limit.
high paid jobs exists because they require skills that are not easy to find / replace.
so like my job and yours as a teacher will always have a salary limit unless you improve yourself and add more specific skills.
as teacher probably hard because teaching will be always the same :x
mike695ca:
Dude where do you live? For 5 years you made only 2-300 a year in raises?? Thats a thousand difference over the 5 year period! Your really selling yourself short! You deserve better. But I guess you said it yourself. The job security it important to you. Me? Ill change jobs in a heartbeat if they will make it worth my while. Screw security! haha
ironman510:
A wise man once said: Don't get too greedy, we all hungry for more, that's what makes us human, and no, I'm not talking about money,, Greed leads to issues of all kinds. So if you have something that is working well for you, keep it and stay with it. Sure you could earn more, but you could also lose more because you are making more.
I guess it wasn't' just the job security, it was a good company, little or no management breathing down our necks. And no need to change jobs to earn more money. There are other ways.. I usually make with my Chinese wife and I working together 22-31,000 a month.. So no reason to leave my company.. I also don't want to adjust to a new management style.
And I am making resume look great in the future with legally paid tax proof in China.
But We'll see if Shenzhen will allow me a 6th year visa next July, after hearing about the 5 year working rule BS, I'll be posting the results in 6 months.
Not a given but usually stipulated in the contract. Regardless I would approach other teachers at your school (foreign teachers) and ask them if they got one or not. Some schools it's a 10% raise others it's based on performance, just be prepared to hear the sob story that the school isn't doing so well and there are fewer and fewer students. My advice, if you are a good teacher without complaints from students/parents, is to find another school that pays equal->more, if the school doesn't give you a decent raise tell them you will leave, worked well for me a couple of times. Just DO NOT bluff, in China it tends to backfire sometimes.
If I had to increase the expenses on my budget concerning employees. I would be very careful about who I offer wage increases. Profits and/or budgets. Wage increases are not a given. Have you noticed that the gap between what an FT makes and the starting salary of Uni grad has narrowed alot in the past few years. The supply of FTs has grown in the Eastern provinces and continues to be short in the western provinces. My opinion is that you must ask for, and justify, your request. And don't wait until the last moment. The schools look at one major factor; What do your students think of you and your ability?
