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Q: Non-Chinese chains, and English (or other related language)...
So, I went to Subway the other week. (The US fast-food joint, not the transport medium)
The (middle-aged) trainee was on with her (equally middle-aged) trainer - and no-one else.
I was, of course, asked what I want.
My Chinese sucks, but hey... the menu has Entglish names! So, I said "melt" (not knowing the name of that in Chinese... I could have chosen the Yidali BMT... but that's not what I wanted!)
Ting bu dong...
WTF??
From there, long ensuing battle where-in I finally got my Melt, after much gesturing and all, and think I got my point across about all staff should have the minimal English skills (in a US owned joint) to know the menu items, and in this case, the ingredients.
Now, I'm not a fool.
I certainly don't expect that at 99% of the places I go... such as the Chinese restaurants.
But I do think that foreign owned places, that have menus in English or other languages, should hire staff that can actually use those words!
I mean, in this case, the stupid thing was, she seemed unable to even read the menu... one little word - 'Melt' - was too much for her!
Am I being too "Why doesn't China change to how I want it?" or do I have a legit point??
(FTR - this was in a T1/2 capital city, near a major university that has a large number of international students...just around from a major transport hub...and around the corner from a major foreign investment/money-type place.... so it ain't in Bumfuck nowheresville.)
(2 things...
Firstly, 'middle-aged' was mentioned cos it's relevant... the younger generation were all brought up knowing our alphabet, and can speak some words. The older generation don't have that luxury).
Secondly, I'd expect the same anywhere else in the world... if you're in an area that has a large percentage of a certain population - like Canada in an area with a 30%+ population of Chinese immigrants - then Maccas etc ought to have some staff who speak that language (google the story)
9 years 46 weeks ago in Business & Jobs - China
They should just have computer terminals where you can punch in your own order. Be able to save on service staff and actually clean the washrooms instead.
I dont think thats too much to ask at all.
Fortunatly i dont think its a regular problem. Im a subway feind. And been to them all over. Generally if i see one. Im going. Screw all plans. But a place like that has alot of turnover. And doesnt pay all that well. So instead of finding people that know english and expect to be paid for that skill they hire people and expect them to learn the menu quickly. Perhaps next time you.go she will have improved.
An employee with a proper level of English can easily get a more interesting job with a better income ? I wonder how much a Subway employee get as an income... A relative of my wife makes about 4000/5000 per months for a job she likes, with a bachelor in English. She can follow simple conversations, but not much more.
There's a subway at my workplace. Most people who eat there are executives-leve people from the surrounding companies. Most of them are Chinese, but there's one or two foreigners quite often. The manager of the shop seems to have no problems with taking orders in English. The other employees, it's variable 
Of the "international" .... who am I kidding, "American" chains, I find Star Bucks to have best staff. They always have one person with good English, and some with at least understanding that there might be other languages than Mandarin.
McD, Subway etc are all the same. We do have a couple of burger kings here in town where it seems the "managers" are all able to do some basic English.
But English is not the problem. One doesn't get the correct order even if it is placed by pointing on a menu without any doubt.
Englteachted:
Starbucks pay very well, so they can demand that their staff speaks English. There are fewer Starbucks than there are McDonalds (do the math).
It amazes me how some of you are thinking the same way that we knock Chinese for thinking. Arrogant and selfish. Expecting the world to bend to their whim.
Scandinavian:
Starbucks here in town pay 1500 per month without housing. That's what, 5-6 kuai per hour. I wouldn't call that well. Actually the manager at my local Starbucks says the biggest problem they face is that lots of their employees work there a bit, and then move on, as they now have Starbucks on their CV, they can work anywhere in hospitality.
Findind catering personnel with an attention span of more than 10 seconds is already a "high requirement" here, so, about speaking English... big fast food chains are actually not that bad. Except Subway, I find it quite random sometimes on the personnel but also on the quality of vegetable and supply. Obvious lack of regular checks. Mc Donald's seems to follow a no discrimination policy, I often see older aiyis at the kitchen
Starbucks has one centralized and dedicated training center (per city) where future employees have to learn their English and attitude by heart.
andy74rc:
Speaking of Starbucks, yes, there's always somebody with good english but it's still 4 staff to make 1 coffee though and if they get a whopping 3 customers altogether you're already waiting in line 10 min to get your order done.......
I read somewhere that subway is not one of the better franchises as far as quality control and protecting the franchisee goes.
I doubt having English speaking staff would be a requirement.
That being said, the subway I go to has staff who speak English sometimes. There seems to be a high staff turnover and I suppose it's not always easy to find people in a hurry to replace the girl who didn't show up that morning.
Sinobear:
Subway in Shanghai and the little village where I am currently residing are excellent. The branch in GZ was terrible.
My love of sandwiches brings me to subway alot...also its easy to take to work for a lunch break. While my conversational Chinese is pretty bad, i know all the food words. And while asking the (probably) low wage employees to speak english is just not going to be there all the time, I do agree that they should learn every word of there menu in English. Because its so easy, and the menu is small, and it doesnt change. Ordering there is the simplest process ever. And learning 5 breads, some meats, and 8 veggies is not too much to ask.
xinyuren:
I agree. Your last question is interesting to me. It's precisely what the Chinese woman in Canada asked. The reply by forum members were, 'shut up and learn English'. What's the difference? Could it be that she's Chinese?
Welcome to my world. Well, except for the fact that my podump little town doesn't even have a Subway. Nearest one would be in Hangzhou....which I guess is the one you were talking about in the first place!
In my town, we have 3 KFC's, a McD's, a Starbucks, and a Pizza Hut.....that rounds out the non-Chinese restaurants that are available here (oh, and a DQ). I've never met any English speakers at KFC or McD's or DQ. Very rarely, I'll get an employee who tries to start off in English at Starbucks or Pizza Hut, but once the first "shen me?" comes out of their mouth, I just resort to my basic Chinese and gesturing.
I'm not sure how it works here, but if these locations are all just locally owned franchises, perhaps that Subway owner just put a couple of his ayi's or cousins or inlaws or whatever in uniform and said get to work. Nepotism far outweighs the need to hire individuals suited to the job at hand.
Ummm, we had a great debate here on this forum about that Canadian McDonalds story and the Chinese customer who requested a Chinese speaker. The conversation was overwhelmingly against the woman! This was a while ago, but If I recall correctly, some even called her a bitch for complaining. I was one of the few who saw her request as reasonable and defended the idea of a bilingual McDonalds. Most posters here thought they (the Chinese in Canada) should just learn English. Now this thread is the tables turned. Let's see how the comments turn 
Shining_brow:
I agree Xin. I'm not sure she had the 'right' to make demand (given it's maccas. and not a chinese store), but it shouldn't be an unreasonable expectation that in a place with 30% of a language group, there is likely to be 30% of the staff who can speak it - or at least understand it (given the way language use changes throught generations and migration)
I like the reference to the thing in Canada, Richmond BC to be more precise. Many, many Chinese in Richmond and they should have no problem getting Chinese speaking employees. English as a pre-requisite for a job at a fast food joint in China may be a little more difficult. Agreed middle-age probably makes it much more difficult. I am amazed at the English I run in to in my little town at fast food joints. The kids are getting it!! and they enjoy the opportunity to use it.
better than my aging wife/old lady and better than my 25 year old step daughter.
I have sent this to a buddy of mine... a SUBWAY franchisee in San Francisco USA... hope he comes back with a comment and opens a franchise in my town, where fresh stuff is readily available and could/should take over from the greasy shit currently offered.
I think there's a difference here (though, how significant a difference is up for debate). McDonald's is an American restaurant, and even in China, uses English in the advertising, and on the menus. A company that promotes its "Americanness" could be expected to hire English speaking staff.
In the US, if I went to a Mexican restaurant, I would find it reasonable to expect that I could find Spanish speakers. I could totally understand a Chinese woman going to a Chinese restaurant in Canada and expecting the staff to have Mandarin (or possibly Cantonese) speakers.
I can see this getting into a little bit of a gray area. I wouldn't expect to speak Italian at Pizza Hut, or Mandarin at Panda Express, or Spanish at Taco Bell, since these don't really promote their Italianness, Chineseness, or Mexicanness (outside of a sorta attempt with the food. More or less). However, a Chinese restaurant that promotes a "Chinese experience", and/or makes claims at authenticity, should have Chinese speakers (not the whole staff necessarily, but at least some).
Likewise, the expat bars and pubs around China (and most, if not all, of the bars and pubs are for non-Chinese) that promote a Western theme (as in non-Asian, not Western as in cowboy... though a saloon would be pretty boss), and especially a specific theme (Irish pub, Australian pub, or American sports bar), should hire English speaking staff, since that is part of the package.
As far as McDonald's, Subway, and other of these American chain restaurants... they do have an image of Westernness, and Americanness... but it's not a huge part (at least I hope people don't go to McDonald's expecting "the real American experience"). If they have English on the menu, though, I would say the staff should at least be able to know that much, and I would expect people working at a nominally Chinese restaurant to at least know the menu, if it were written in Chinese.
xinyuren:
A weak argument in my opinion. By this logic, McDonald's should hire English speakers (in, say, the Congo) even when there is no or little chance of getting an English speaking customer, because American.
Language is a communication tool, not a special feature. In a restaurant, it's used primarily for customer service. If you have large clientele of a particular ethnicity, it's just good business to make reasonable changes to adapt to their needs. This principle does not exempt the Chinese customers in Canada nor favor the American expats in China. Its sound business practice anywhere.
Mateusz:
As I said, it's up for debate. Though, if a restaurant did have a language on the menu, and made the culture of that language part of the restaurant's appeal, then it could be expected.
As I said, if I go to a Mexican restaurant that was aimed at people wanting authentic Mexican food, and a Mexican themed environment, I would be disappointed if the waiter had no idea what a burrito was, or gave me a blank stare when I said, "Uno cerveza, por favor."
Now, if you want to argue that McDonald's doesn't bill itself as "Authentic American food", or make an "American environment" part of the reason for going, that's what I said before.
The biggest argument for it, though, would be that there is English on the menu, hence it would be assumed that the staff should know at least the food, since that is what is written.
Also, we're not talking about ethnicity, but language and culture.
xinyuren:
My argument is simple. A restaurant should have English on it's menu and speak English if it is aiming for English speaking customers. Regardless of what kind of food it serves. My argument applies in the exact same way to a restaurant that plants itself smack dab in the middle of a Chinese community and marketing to Chinese speaking customers. It's a weak argument to say that the Chinese customers have to learn English simply because the restaurant is American.
Englteachted:
Completely different. In China, they can't hire native English speakers, there are plenty of native Spanish speakers in the US.
xinyuren:
The circumstances are slightly different, but the principles are exactly the same. If i want the English speaking customers, shouldn't I be expected to make the minimum effort of training staff to recognize the English on the menus?
Englteachted:
They do not care about getting English speaking customers in China. You think they came here for English speaking customers? What about foreigners who do not speak English?
xinyuren:
If they don't care, then they are business stupid, since it's foreign food in unadulterated form located in large cities with a steady influx of foreigners. ;nbsp; I have never seen a Subway in a Chinese city without a significant number of foreign expats. Of course they care. As for other languages, I think the market is very very small in China for foreigners who can't speak English. Hardly worth the effort.
Englteachted:
They care about 1% of the population who are going to go there anyway? So they should pay double in order to attract workers who speak English ? Do the math. Foreign customers do not decide whether or not to go to Western fast food joints based on the staff speaking English.
xinyuren:
Pay double? I highly doubt it would cost double to teach someone on the staff a few English words. Not that I think Chinese bosses would even care about this, but it is a reasonable expectation.
Englteachted:
They would have to hire. This is China, they can't teach a beginner English so that they can actually use it. Even if that was so, the staff would use their skill to get a better paying job.
Shining_brow:
ET is taking this in a direction that it's not really going... I think deliberately.
Firstly, he's missing the point about what 'English-speaking' means. It was made quite clear that the only desier/expectation was that the staff know enough English to know what's on the menu - the sandwich names, the breads, the salad stuff, etc. That's it!! We're only talking about 30 words! Plus some plesantries. "Good morning" (but not "hallloooooo... what's your naaammmeee????").
Secondly, the menu items are written on the menu in English.
Thirdly, there are over 100 million people in this country learning English. Many university students want a job, and have already had about 8 years of learning English. They are the most likely demographic of workers in maccas or Subway, etc. Hence, no need for double pay, no need to go far out of your way to find the bi-lingual staff members...
As for the argument about different languages... in my town, there are Spanish Italian and French restaurants (very disappointed there's no Greek!) Also a couple of Mexican. The local universities have foreign language departments. I'd say it's not too much to ask to put up advertising for jobs in these restaurants on the boards to the foreign language departments. However, these langauges (other than Greek) all use the same alphabet, and other than French, are fairly phonetic. so, again, knowing the names of the items on the menu (if written with that alphabet) shouldn't be a problem.
There is one argument to counter all of the above... Chinese bosses don't give a stuff. And staff turn-over - at least in the fast food chains - tends to be high. Still, I think the point for Subway, Makccas, Burger King etc still remains.
Now that there are so many English speaking Chinese available they can simply hire them... Instead of those who just stare at you as if you have committed a crime
Englteachted:
Hire them for Subway wages? And the ones who get high scores on the English tests can't speak.
Oh the arrogance. This is China, in a French chain in the states would I demand that they spoke French?
Oh and by the way since you can't figure it out. The English menu is there to help customers who can't speak Chinese. Not as a statement that ,"our staff speaks English." Let me dumb it down for you even further, English menu is there because their staff do not speak English (no guarantee).
xinyuren:
That makes sense and it is practical in McDonalds. But in Subways, the menu is on the wall high above the customers. This results in a lot of pointing and cursing. It would help if Subways had a handheld menu like KFC and McD's.
Subway have opened up in Harbin recently and the one near my house has a bilingual English/Chinese laminated board at the counter so people who can't speak Chinese can just point. I can actually order in Chinese, but I thought it was a clever touch.
As for the staff not being able to speak English, what do you expect? They're fast food restaurants, not embassies. The vast majority of their customers have no interest in brushing up on their rusty English skills and so there is little point in splashing out the extra money a reasonably fluent English speaker would want. Besides, how far do you want to go with this ridiculous idea? French speakers in Carrefour? Spanish speakers at Zara? Swedish speakers at H&M (at all their stores worldwide)? YOU'RE NOT IN THE ANGLOSPHERE HERE! Take some classes or suck it up.
Shining_brow:
Wo hui shuo he kan yidian dian zhongwen, danshi bo buzhidao ci 'Melt" haishi 'meatballs'... wo bu zhidao shui zhidao ci 'jalapenos'!!
In case you've missed the main point of this discussion (which you obviously have), it's not about being able to have good English skills... it's know the basics of a menu... about 30 words in total! In a country with over 100 millions learners of a language, where the highest demographic of employees comes from that +100 millions learners, in an area that has a much higher than normal poplulation of foreign visitors....
AND... for the most part, my experiences at Subways, BK, etc ist that there is normally at least 1 person on the front counter who does speak some English.
As for the other comment about French, German, etc.... sorry, but they're no longer the international language of choice. Maybe if we had this discussion a couple of hundred years ago, I would be saying Why don't they have a menu in French (or Spanish, or Portuguese, or Dutch...). But that time is long in the past...
AND... if I look at my home, I find various shops around town that will have Chinese, Japanese and Korean speakers...!
