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Q: Principles - what percentage of people actually have them?
AKA - it's someone else's responsibility, not mine!
Given Earthizen's thread, why not??
A couple of things:
Firstly, a friend of mine is from a (traditionally) non-English speaking country.. however, his mother is French, and his father is German, and his education was all in English... thus, he speaks those languages fluently (well, almost). He also has a grasp of a few other languages.
And yet, the school I work at doesn't want him because he's not "a white looking guy".
I find this offensive (ie, racist), and have offered up my resignation if this is actually going to be the case. My co-workers, while saying I'm right and it's a bad thing... still do nothing about it.
This is the concept of 'principle' - making a sacrifice for something one believes is important to the making of a better world.
What percentage of people (and feel free to allot qualifications) do you think actually are willing to make those sacrifices?
I firmly believe that about 100% of people (or close enough - <1%) are hypocrits (yes, including me!) The world is becoming seriously over-populated and we're continually making the place worse through our actions (just living in a 'civilised' society adds to the burdens on the earth - think of the number of animals - and plants - killed to keep us alive - the amount of ground that is dug up to power our inventions and mod-cons - and not so mod-cons). Having children is one of the most environmentally unfriendly things a human can do.. we all know this... and yet, still have them! "It's someone else's responsibility not to have kids!!", "someone else's responsibility to make the world better".
I write this with an additional idea - if one does choose to take this stance (ie, "someone else's responsibility"), then does it matter after that whether we take any responsibilities to improve things around us?. Wouldn't the selfishness we often see around us here be less hypocritical than our own - who 'know' things are bad, but don't make a principled stance...?
(oh, and what the hell - since I know how this will come across - judgement. Do we have a 'right' to judge, and be judged? Or do you truly think that "don't you judge me!!!" is a valid stance?)
Im not saying its right or anything but racist BUT in my experience the very talented individuals usually breeze past these racist notions. It might be your friend, and I am not there so i cant be sure, but if he was a really great teacher Id imagine they would still hire him. Ive seen it countless times. Money is more powerful than anything else and good teachers make bank. If thats the case is it worth quitting your job for someone who is just not good enough?
I mean he must surely knows what he is getting into. Right or not this is the system. And it isnt hidden. Its out in the open.
Shining_brow:
I would grant you most of this... except this part of the discussion happened over Wechat.. where it's pretty hard to really show off your talents as a teacher.
I was also told that he met the relevant people - but afterwards it was a straight race issue.
Also - TBH - I'm not worried or really care too much if he gets a job with them or not... it's the principle behind it that really matters. He may not get the job because he doesn't have the qualifications - but surely this needs to be the main focus of questions - not what he looks like! (for him, and any others who apply in the future...)
Hi,
I think this is difficult to say. I have my principles and I stick to them (which for many people in my surrounding is non-understandable) but I´m not willing to gave up my job because somebody was not fair to my friend. World is not always fair to everybody, I experienced myself, being white girl from Europe looking like American, to be refused in work after a week, because I´m fat. Does it make any sense? I guess not.
It´s sad and people in China need to realize one think. Treat other people the way you want them to treat you....
When i search for job here, I more than often see - Native Speakers Only - who says native speakers are always better than non-native? Non-native speakers experienced the process of learning English and know, what was their problem during learning process. They can focus more on that problems because they once were in position of the students too...
Shining_brow:
The way I perceive this is: it's not giving up a job because of my friend. It's giving up a job because they would refuse (theoretically) millions of people. As I told him - I'm not doing it for him - I'm doing it because it's wrong!
Native vs non-native teachers... it's a huge argument. Having learnt a language as an L2 also does not make one automatically proficient in teaching it. It just gives a different perspective. Being proficient doesn't make one good at teaching either.
Though, I do agree - the requirements for teaching here need to be seriously overhauled.. and that's not going to happen when they want so many, and so few come!
yes, I agree with all you said, but I´m afraid there is no company or school where they didn´t do it before, so if it´s the reason, maybe you will not find any school to teach...
To native/non-native question, I agree too, off course, I just don´t see the reason to automatically refuse half of potential applicants, some of them really professional ones...
Shining_brow:
With my qualifications and background, I'm not worried about finding a job (same with the amount I have saved up :p)
Perhaps you're right! But, if no-one stands up and says "this isn't right", then it never changes! The schools that now have those non-white teachers do so because either they got really desperate, or the owner/hiring person knew better... perhaps they got taught better by someone somewhere...
The world isn't fair. If I quit my job it will still be unfair and I will be unemployed. The world will be unfair long after you and I are dead.
Chinese people prefer hiring whites because white people represent success and luxury. Advertising tells them this on every street corner and at every commercial break.
Good men, the last wave by, crying how bright
Their frail deeds might have danced in a green bay,
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.
In this case, your principles do not apply to Chinese people. There are no laws here against such discrimination. They need a white person who can speak English, but above all they need to be white. They haven't pretended to want otherwise. This is just you applying your cultural standards to their actions. I am planning to shoot a film. I need a tall Chinese girl with black hair. If a short girl with dyed hair applies for the role, I will refuse her. I need what I need. The school needs what it needs and apparently they are willing to deal with the consequences.
You are free to stick with your principles, but you won't make an iota of difference because your indignation is misplaced. You are in China. Here,this is a non-issue.
by the way, it's nobody's responsibilty but the Chinese to change China and I'm pretty sure they will change if they want to.
Shining_brow:
I understand your PoV, but it's incorrect (in parts).
Firstly, in your film, you NEED someone to fit a particular description, and it is essential to the role. In my OP situation, they don't 'need' a white face, they 'want' one. The appearance is NOT directly relevant to the actual needs of the student (learning a language). This is why it's called 'racism'.
Secondly, I'm not trying to change 'China' - but only individual's attitudes and perceptions, since the people we're dealing with (the students) are intending to go overseas. Thus, they will meet many people of various appearances, who will all (or completely not) speak English.
FTR - I got a reply from my email.. very positive.The Head of Teaching department guaranteed that this is not a policy, and gave his word that this should not be happening!!! So, do you still think I was in the wrong here??
xinyuren:
I never thought you were in the wrong. Standing by one's principles is never wrong in my opinion. In many Chinese schools, they feel they need a white face. It's like theater. They have to show a white face to parents who want it. In these cases, resistence is futile. You know this more than me. In this case, it seems you are getting positive results. Yay for the foreigners!
Haha, yeah, why not?
What you are saying about Earth's situation is true. 7+ billion human population, cars, planes, drilling (massive depletion) of oil, deforestation, soaring CO2 level, rapid extinction path quite a few other species are on, N/S Poles icecaps went beyond the point of recovery (proven by scientists in 2014) ....etc.
Relative to Earth only half a century ago (ie I am not even talking about a century, let alone centuries), the oxygen content in the air is higher than today, meaning unless you are living in the Amazon forest or similar places (lots of trees) your intake of oxygen is bound to be less than people in the past. We all know how important oxygen is and what it means to have less....
As for principles, I am seeing fewer and fewer people are having them. I am not the only one with this observation either, many among older generations also are saying the same thing. It is really amusing to hear from younger folks telling me even younger ones (i.e. teenagers and those in their early 20s) are without principles. 
Haha, yeah, why not?
What you are saying about Earth's situation is true. 7+ billion human population, cars, planes, drilling (massive depletion) of oil, deforestation, soaring CO2 level, rapid extinction path quite a few other species are on, N/S Poles icecaps went beyond the point of recovery (proven by scientists in 2014) ....etc.
Relative to Earth only half a century ago (ie I am not even talking about a century, let alone centuries), the oxygen content in the air is higher than today, meaning unless you are living in the Amazon forest or similar places (lots of trees) your intake of oxygen is bound to be less than people in the past. We all know how important oxygen is and what it means to have less....
As for principles, I am seeing fewer and fewer people are having them. I am not the only one with this observation either, many among older generations also are saying the same thing. It is really amusing to hear from younger folks telling me even younger ones (i.e. teenagers and those in their early 20s) are without principles.
Im not saying its right or anything but racist BUT in my experience the very talented individuals usually breeze past these racist notions. It might be your friend, and I am not there so i cant be sure, but if he was a really great teacher Id imagine they would still hire him. Ive seen it countless times. Money is more powerful than anything else and good teachers make bank. If thats the case is it worth quitting your job for someone who is just not good enough?
I mean he must surely knows what he is getting into. Right or not this is the system. And it isnt hidden. Its out in the open.
Shining_brow:
I would grant you most of this... except this part of the discussion happened over Wechat.. where it's pretty hard to really show off your talents as a teacher.
I was also told that he met the relevant people - but afterwards it was a straight race issue.
Also - TBH - I'm not worried or really care too much if he gets a job with them or not... it's the principle behind it that really matters. He may not get the job because he doesn't have the qualifications - but surely this needs to be the main focus of questions - not what he looks like! (for him, and any others who apply in the future...)
Im not saying its right or anything but racist BUT in my experience the very talented individuals usually breeze past these racist notions. It might be your friend, and I am not there so i cant be sure, but if he was a really great teacher Id imagine they would still hire him. Ive seen it countless times. Money is more powerful than anything else and good teachers make bank. If thats the case is it worth quitting your job for someone who is just not good enough?
I mean he must surely knows what he is getting into. Right or not this is the system. And it isnt hidden. Its out in the open.
