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Posts: 3852

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Q: Question for those working as foreign teachers

I know this question has been dealt with as part of other threads, usually as an aside to the main thread. The school i worked in pressured me to change students grades if they failed (i wasn't working in a training school). I knew that they would be changed anyway. Have you, as a foreign teacher, felt your should stick to the original mark, or just shrugged your shoulders? All viewpoints welcome

10 years 38 weeks ago in  Teaching & Learning - China

 
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Wow the only time I had to grade anything was when I was grading papers...I wasn't teaching I was just grading the papers along with other foreigners...alike. Most of the schools I've taught at we don't give grades it's like an hourly english class for the week. No grades we just do class work. I might give out an occasional sticker, but it's not really necessary...

bill8899:

In other words, nothing to add.

10 years 38 weeks ago
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TedDBayer:

Not the nice glitter stickers that you have? And you are not a foreigner, if you were they wouldn't be alike.

10 years 38 weeks ago
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10 years 38 weeks ago

There are cookies, bookies and too many rookies for me to sit here trying to be a hooky! Looky Looky don't call me a wooky. Touchy Touchy Feely Feely Spicy Spicy Nicey Nicey & that's what the doctor Ordered!!

 
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What grade do you teach? I don't want to say it's common for FTs to pass everyone, but ...

The power to give an E is reserved for the CTs who may profit from the process (here). Not us.

Just my 2c, or pence.

angel

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10 years 38 weeks ago
 
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I know what you're referring to when it comes to scores. This is the companies scheme plan, a lot of training centers have it, so my advice is to allow them to do as they wish and keep your head down and your mouth shut. You must remember you work for them. If you feel unjustly about it then tell your boss: "Wo xihuan ci zhi" = I want to resign!

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10 years 38 weeks ago
 
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That's heavy.  I haven't come across this yet thank god. I'd like to think that if I did though, I would not change the mark.  If we were teachers in the West, the whole point of marks especially lower marks are so we and the student can easily establish whether the student comprehends a particular subject, and subsequent grades after tell if the student is improving or still not grasping the new concept. It makes sense out here that they have no problem with altering grades as it's all about saving face..but even if it gets altered whatever happens, may as well leave it to somebody else to change and not get your hands dirty. By all means, if a teacher thinks your grading is too harsh/polite, theres no harm in reconsidering and having another look or having a fresh opinion but I'd like to think if I was in the position that I would stick to my guns. Even if that meant pissing off 'the man' or whoever is in charge, They clearly don't understand our job if grades can be altered at a tip of a hat. 

xxxcdbxxx:

you will

 

10 years 37 weeks ago
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10 years 38 weeks ago
 
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The mindset is to pressure you into doing something you know is wrong, preferably by threats. This seems to be an aspect of all dealings with foreigners, whether getting teachers to work illegally, getting businessmen to pay bribes or in your case, academic fraud. Inevitably, they will also find a way to use that against you, even if just to remind you that you did it.

 

I always left it to the school to make the changes. I rarely compromised my principles.

ironman510:

Yeah, never compromise your management or boss in China. Think about the bigger picture first.

10 years 38 weeks ago
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happywanderer:

Sorry!  I'm not a teacher so shouldn't be commenting here.  But just wanted to say that Traveler's comment "The mindset is to pressure you into doing something you know is wrong, " is so on the ball.  I've never come across mind games like those that are played here.  The need to control employees - have complete power over them through whatever means, intimidation or anything else - it's every small-minded dictator's dream.

10 years 38 weeks ago
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10 years 38 weeks ago
 
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I have been told countless times now to change marks. Many different and bizarre reasons have been given:

 

'His father is rich, you must change the score'.

'His family is very important, we must let him pass the class. It will be bad...'

'He has brain problem. I think he is retard'.

 

All genuine reasons I have been told to change percentages or marks. 

 

I've protested but it's like banging my head off a wall. Each time I've just handed over the sheets and said, 'Do what you like'.

 

It's very annoying but what can you do?

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10 years 38 weeks ago
 
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Shifu

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Traveler is right about it, especially the part "they will also find a way to use that against you, even if just to remind you that you did it." except that such things happen to Chinese teachers as well. It's not a China-anti-foreign thing. I used to have a neighbor who is a university teacher and she told me similar stories.

 

Pretend that you don't understand their "little requirements" and leave the troubles to the school.

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10 years 38 weeks ago
 
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Shifu

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I'm not so sure that Traveler's point is why they try to get you to do this. It's certainly a factor behind it, if they get you to sacrifice your principles then they feel like the "big boy", but if they fail a student then the student will complain, the parents will get involved, etc. I saw the exact same thing in Thailand. Heck, they didn't even ask us to change the grades there, they just did it themselves.

I think it comes down to this: students are paying extra for the FT, and a passing grade is included in this price. Again, if it gives the Ch. boss a chance to put on some pathetic little mind tricks to make them feel superior, all the more reason for them to tell the teacher to do it.

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10 years 38 weeks ago
 
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It seems to be the Norm across the world these days not just China and not just English Classes .               Where money is involved you get what you pay forindecision . From my experience as a Instructor I see RTO's  live off funding from Government programs and if the student fails they will not send anymore people their way.          And if the student complains  they will give the certificate so they do not say bad things about the RTOyes.The majority of fails are down to lazy people and nothing else.       we used to get the 5 kinds of people come through  1 I am only here because they will cut off my dole if I didn't show 2 my mother did everything for me so you will toocrying. 3 I will never drive the machine I only need the certificate to show the bosssmiley. 4 I know what I'm doing so just give me the certificatesad 5 The guy who actully needs the qual and gets off their ass and does the course by them self and leans something. And this is why I drink wink

GuilinRaf:

I was castigated last term because I did not fail "enough students".

So, I failed the ones who never  came to class, who played with their cell phones etc.

Turns out that those students were well connected , so I was not "allowed" to fail those.

I ignored them and failed them anyway.

I will have to retest them in September or October. I will fail them again unless they show me that they do indeed know the material given.

Then, the school will change my marks to a passing grade and they will live happily ever after.

10 years 38 weeks ago
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10 years 38 weeks ago
 
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Oh my god.. Just don't dirty your hand.. but don't let your boss feel that you don't want to do it. This is china. 

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10 years 38 weeks ago
 
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Send a letter to Education Department complaining about such things. The dean of your school should be punished. S/He has violated the discipline. Or I can post our text content on official media website. Someone should be responsible for such cheating behavior.

Almost:

This stunt will get you fired for sure!

9 years 49 weeks ago
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10 years 38 weeks ago
 
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I stick to the original mark. It is up to the School if they want to change the score or not. I dont.

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10 years 38 weeks ago
 
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Shifu

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Yes, it happened to me during my first year in China. After I had submitted my evaluatios for each student, I was called into the director's office and told 'no student was ever going to be flunked in his school [private]. If some students were not as good as others, it was my duty as a teacher to see that they all passed. When I showed her the backup papers for the grades, I was told to 'adjust them. Needless to say, at the end of the school year I left that school.

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10 years 38 weeks ago
 
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If you want to stick to your guns and do the right thing, fail them anyway. It might eventually cost you your job.

 

If you want to be dishonest and make lots of money, you can accept all manner of bribes in exchange for violating your principles. You could end up making a crap-load of cash. This happens in Thailand too. No idea about Vietnam... This is China. Night is day, and the truth is a lie.

 

Code of the Edumao:

Truth is a lie, there is only passing.
Through passing, I gain guanxi.
Through guanxi, I gain power.
Through power, I gain money.
Through money, my chains are broken.
The Renminbi shall free me.






bayuvar139:

I love your little poem; so right on!

10 years 36 weeks ago
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10 years 38 weeks ago
 
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I left a well-paying job at a school for the "no one fails" policy. The school is still doing very well (in fact, they've gone from a diploma mill to being a degree mill). What I do is simply give failing students an I/C (incomplete) or the lowest passing grade possible. All the students are aware that receiving such a grade is as much as I will do for them (no recommendation letters in the future).

chinacoolie:

It's almost a conspiracy.

10 years 38 weeks ago
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10 years 38 weeks ago
 
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Shifu

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if u changed a grade i hope u got your piece of the action

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10 years 38 weeks ago
 
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when i set the end-of-semester exam, students asked me what they were to study, and I replied 'everything that i covered in the classes,' which caused some panic. When marking, i noticed the same mistakes were being made by groups of students (i had been excluded from the over-seeing the exam itself, not even being told when exactly it was taking place.) When i submitted the results, i was asked to 'review' the marks of students who had failed. I refused point blank. as far as i was concerned, the material was covered in depth in class, reviewed again at the end of the semester, and most importantly (from my POV) these students all wanted to study in a foreign University. One staff member told me that certain students would 'feel bad' if they failed, and tried to threaten me. But i told this staff member, that if they wanted to be prepared for the reality of a foreign university, they have to do the work. I knew that the scores would be changed anyway. I know that to stick to my principals was probably foolish, but i refused do otherwise.

Shining_brow:

They wouldn't even tell you when the exam was on????

 

I don't get why it was so important for YOU to adjust the scores - they obviously don't give a crap what you do...

 

Glad you kept to your guns :)

10 years 38 weeks ago
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sorrel:

This was in a prominent university in a provincial capital. EDIT: and this was in the face of my Department Head shouting at me to 'improve' the scores.

10 years 38 weeks ago
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10 years 38 weeks ago
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Englteachted:

The prominent schools are usually the ones that are the biggest degree mills. They pay well and give you a really nice apartment. . 

10 years 38 weeks ago
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10 years 38 weeks ago
 
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Just point out how much 'face' they'll lose when they fail badly overseas, and get sent back here in disgrace... (and, point out that Chinese money isn't worth much over there - they won't be bribing to many teachers in laowai-land)

sorrel:

I know - that is what I kept telling them. But they knew better ........ Thankfully I am not there anymore ;o)

10 years 38 weeks ago
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GuilinRaf:

Sadly, they dont lose any; face. If a student fails, it is tallied as "Anti-China racism"...

10 years 37 weeks ago
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10 years 38 weeks ago
 
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The other FT and I at my school just stopped giving grades since we knew the school didn't even report them.  All of our students passed, regardless of our comments or grades they earned.  I figure the students will get smacked in the face with reality some day........just not today.

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10 years 37 weeks ago
 
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Oh, please, if we grade them by Western standards, eighty percent won't pass. I have been in the same situation. The easiest way is to give those guys the lowest passing grade, 60% and that's it. The good news is, because of those failures we have our jobs, so why bother? Focus on good students, give them high grades, praise them, travel with them, and those kids of rich parents will get their 60% and no friendship from a smart and pretty foreign teacher. 

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10 years 36 weeks ago
 
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At my language school no grades are given.  I often wonder, though, why they move students up to the next stage when they have no ability what-so-ever.  It is all about making money.  Sometimes, even the parents see through the BS and take their kids out.  Once a student is a level, or two, behind, they quit learning anything because it is all over their heads.  It would make much more sense to have them repeat what they did not learn in the first place.  I guess that doesn't bring in the money though!

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10 years 32 weeks ago
 
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one university i worked for allowed the student to take a retest of the exam if they failed, for a fee that was supposedly donated to the library funding.

i had students show up the first day and the last day for the exam and the school passed them with a 60 score. i have had students cheat on an open book exam and i threw a students  phone out the window who called his gf for answers from another one of my classes.

for some reason 6 months later his laptop got a blue screen and never recovered.

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10 years 30 weeks ago
 
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