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Q: is this racist?

is it racist to believe that a group of people are capable of behaving like normal human beings and therefore be critical of their behavior when they dont behave like normal human beings (spitting, crapping, litering all over the place, complete total disregard for human life when it comes to food and traffic "safety")?
i will draw a parallel 
in the states i have seen some liberals always defending the awful acts of some black criminals and i would scratch my head as to why? then i realized sth about these kinds of people they probably harbor the belief that blacks aren't capable of behaving like civilized human beings and therefore should be excused.

i came to china expecting to experience the  rich culture of china. instead soo much filth , racism (even towards each other), deception and inhumane behavior. 
is it wrong to point out these things as thing that can be fixed or should it be ignored because "maybe this is the best they can do"

8 years 5 days ago in  General  - China

 
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A funny story I heard once.  An englishman was walking along the road with an African in Africa.  The African blows his nose on the street (like many Chinese do).  The Englishman blows his nose in a hankerchief.  He later relates how "uncivilized"  and disgusting the African is, blowing his mucous into the street.  The African later relates how strange and disgusting it is, the Englishman keeping his mucous in his pocket.  Which person is normal?  The answer?  They both are in their own respective countries.  The moral of the story is to leave your expectations at the door when entering a foreign country and don't be too quick about labeling their behaviour.

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8 years 5 days ago
 
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I will give you my opinion for whatever is good.  You may find them to be racists, and in turn they may find you to be something else. 

You are judging them from your standards' point of view, not from theirs.  What could be common acceptable behavior for them, could be totally unacceptable to you.
I do agree a with a total disregard for others' lives when driving, by blowing the horn whatever they do afterwards is fine.  Yet, I still try hard not to judge them when I thing that back in USA  we drive at 50 to 60 miles per hour, and here in city limits is 40 Kms/hr the maximum speed.  Also, we probably have around 100 years of driving experience as a nation, and here is less than 15 or 20 years.
I have found that I am happier if I do not pay so much attention to many details, and accept others as they are, not as I wish they were.

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8 years 5 days ago
 
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I don't think its racist, maybe discriminatory. Like HappyExpat said, I think ones way of life and views can be different from others. You, are wearing your glasses of how humans "should" behave when you see them. Imagine what they are seeing when they see you.

this statement however:

{in the states i have seen some liberals always defending the awful acts of some black criminals and i would scratch my head as to why? then i realized sth about these kinds of people they probably harbor the belief that blacks aren't capable of behaving like civilized human beings and therefore should be excused}
might seem racist

 

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8 years 5 days ago
 
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Yes, it is. But that's mostly because to make generalisations about entire groups of people based on the actions of some (or even most), is by definition 'discrimination', and when that group is a particular ethnicity, then the discrimination is 'racist'.

 

As said previously, your attitudes are different to others. You even said it yourself - "normal people". What's a "normal person"? Was a Spartan "normal", even though we would now view many of their behaviours as cruel and barbaric. Do "normal people" leave disabled or sickly children in the snow or wilderness for the wolves? This was 'normal' not that long ago...

 

But, just making an observation about a particular action, and expressing your abhorrence with that action, is not in itself 'racist'. Nor even 'discriminatory'... until you say (eg) "spitting is a disgusting habit, I've seen Chinese people do it. You're a Chinese person - therefore you are disgusting". It's like the difference on this (and other) forum - attack the post, not the person.

 

I think, however, that the argument grows murky when there is an adopted position, and it's not countered in any particular way. For example, if a particular organisation adopts the position of defending the actions of ALL black criminals (to continue with your example), and it is their official policy, then it's fine to say "All members of that group are XYZ".

 

On a related topic - morals! Are you an 'Absolutist' or a 'Relativist'??

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8 years 5 days ago
 
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I think the resposes are all correct but only form a small part of the answer.
sometimes it is hard to understand the culiture when it is far removed from what we deem to be normal
and somethings expressed in one language does not translate well to another.and just add to the confusition
I dont think it is racist to report or discuss a act or a mindset
How else do we learn?
if I say somthing about what a minorety culiture in my western country I get told Im racist
If the minorety culiture conplain about my culiture in my country I am told I must be more sensitive to the minorety
I sincerly hope this post make sense

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8 years 5 days ago
 
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A funny story I heard once.  An englishman was walking along the road with an African in Africa.  The African blows his nose on the street (like many Chinese do).  The Englishman blows his nose in a hankerchief.  He later relates how "uncivilized"  and disgusting the African is, blowing his mucous into the street.  The African later relates how strange and disgusting it is, the Englishman keeping his mucous in his pocket.  Which person is normal?  The answer?  They both are in their own respective countries.  The moral of the story is to leave your expectations at the door when entering a foreign country and don't be too quick about labeling their behaviour.

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8 years 5 days ago
 
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I think all of you have valid points.
I believe that most behavoir (spitting, crapping, pissing on the street) is learned and environmental.  I do not think that complaining about behavoirs is racist, as people all over the world have theses habits, we are just not used to them, and we are not insulting the race or the people but the practices..
When it comes to morals and ethics, this is different.  Regardless of what educational (home or school) or societal norms may be, I can not accpet certain things.
Complete lack of compassion for human life, and fondness for scamming and ripping off anyone you can, are not acceptable in my eyes and most of the world.  Yes, other countries are just as bad if not worse (I will refrain from using examples), but we all happen to be living here, so we complain about these things here.
If I say ALL chinese people have these traits, then yes, this is racist.  If I say that all white Americans are bible bashing redneck morons, then this is racist.  If I say there happens to be alot of these types in the south, but not so much elsewhere, then this is not generalizing, and not racist. (I could continue to list more examples, but you all get my point).
The things we complain about are not reflective of the entire country and its people, and I do not believe anyone here has insiuated this at all.
People need to stop being so damn polically correct and sensitive.

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8 years 5 days ago
 
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Actually, it is not racest, by definition. Rasicm is the belief that one is intrinsicly superior (and by inference, all others are inferior) based solely on the color of ones skin. It has nothing to do with comparing cultural norms with other cultural norms.

True story: My wife (Chinese) and I were having lunch in a resturant the other day, and a man at the next table kept staring at me (something I am quite used to by now) and started commenting to his companions (in Chinese, of course). My wife turned around and had a short conversation and then returned to our meal. After the party left, my wife told me that he was tellling his companions, "Look at that American. He chews his food with his mouth closed. We Chinese sound like a bunch of cows when we eat!"

In toto, that was how I was raised. Close your mouth when you eat. But if one hasn't been rasied that way, what else could be expected?

Yes, China is developing, but from what, into what, no one knows. In their headlong rush for fame, fortune, and modernization, many things that are precious and fragile may be left by the wayside.

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8 years 5 days ago
 
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I don't think it's racist. Racism by definition means believing one race to be superior to another/others. In my opinion, the very fact that you complain demonstrates that you believe these people are capable of better and therefore are not racist. 

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8 years 5 days ago

Before you judge someone walk a mile in their shoes, that way you're a mile away and you have their shoes!

 
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I suggest you to study history of each's country then ask a question like this....and I totally  support civilization.

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8 years 4 days ago

I like a snowy Happy new year, rather than a no sky one...Beijing's time to ban the cars---the only solution for the time being...

 
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Just FTR, I googled 'define: racism', and got various definitions, most indicating that the superiority/inferiority usually accompanies the anti-type sentiments... not that it defines racism... (can't effectively discuss a topic, unless we all agree on what the topic is!)

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8 years 4 days ago
 
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Shifu

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My definition of racism would be insulting an entire country through broad generalizations, but bragging about not being able to speak the language. Wilfully cultivating ignorance about the people you claim to be better than.

You can't even spell a common word like 喜欢 in pinyin, but you think you have the slightest idea what's going on around you, crimo? You're no more able to judge China than a blind man a painting or a deaf man a symphony. Racism is pretending that you have the context to say one god-damn thing about the Chinese.

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8 years 4 days ago
 
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All I can say is that maybe you need better friends. If all you see is the good, you're fooling yourself. If all you're seeing is the crap, it's not any better. Maybe you should move to a different city? While I know that there are horrible things...hell, I see the lack of animal rights in the street...I also know some good people. No place is heaven. At any point in your life, no matter where you are or what you're doing, if you count out the pros and cons, the cons will always outnumber the pros. It's the quality of the pros that matter. You need to make some good memories, crimo, all the crap is getting to you.

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8 years 4 days ago
 
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No, it's not racist when you criticize the specific people who have committed the aforementioned acts. But it's racist when you criticize a whole nation's peoples  based on the acts of a few.
It's also a bit ignorant to go to another country and expect the conditions and customs to suit you favourably, as if moving between places in your country.
Westerners who come to my country and see the locals eating with their hands and say stupid stuff like,"That's so primitive and uncouth!" can easily get beaten up. Our ancestors were living well way before forks and knives.
In other words, it's racist and ignorant to call certain habits in China stupid just because these habits don't exist in your country.
Oh, and I've seen loads of NFL players remove their helmets and have their way with the ground.    
The world is full of imbeciles and intellectuals, good people and bad people. It's okay to criticize certain people and specific places but when you have a bad China day and end up abusing all the whole of China, then that is definately racist. 
It seems China is getting to you. I'd advise you to start looking at the good things in China. If you can't see them anymore, then it's time to pack up.

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8 years 4 days ago
 
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Hey buddy!
I think you may be suffering from some culture shock.  It gets to us sooner or later and hits us differently.
Maybe you could use a change of environment, or expand your social circle.  my first bout with culture shock was aobut 8 or 9 months after arrival and it just hit me! One moment I was fine, eating rice noodles and then the man in front of me just took off his shirt and continued eating. For some reason, this galactically trivial action set of a chian of thoughs that made me hate absoluetly everything here! For the next two weeks i could not see anything I liked and everything pissed me off!
The good news is that it passes.  And the first one is always the worst.  I have had a couple more since then ( I am starting my fourth year here) and to be honest I dont want to return to America just yet.  There are things I love in China and things I dont.  But, like the others have said, it is a matter of difference and knowing and accepting.  Easy? No! I cannot stand the idea of someone eating a dog! The old  man and kids that you mention, would drive me ballistic.
Anyway, that is what this forum is for! Let it out, many of us have been in your shoes. Some have had it not as bad, and others have had it worse.
Try to hang in there! I dont remember how long you have been here. And vent all you want!  If  you are afraid of getting grief from others, you can freely send me pm here at this site.
Best of luck buddy!
GR
p.s. And NO, I did NOT use spell check this time and I dont care!cheeky

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8 years 4 days ago
 
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Crimo, what is normal for you in your home country is not necessarily what is considered normal and civilized in another country. You can't judge based on your own belief system, or it is racist. 

I would like to add... regarding the spitting... it's not uncommon to see men spitting on the sidewalks and in the streets in America. I've been noticing it a lot more lately, probably because it's brought up as one of the biggest complaints on this site a lot. Maybe it's time for you to take your thousands of dollars in savings and head home, take a breather, clear your head and then decide where to go from there. 

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8 years 4 days ago
 
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Shifu

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"but there is a difference american society does not accept it (sadly in casey athony's case the jury did not do their job) , it's acceptable behavior here. but there is an overall acceptance that life has no value when it comes to certain people."

See, there's the fucking problem. He says the Chinese freely accept it, but if he knew more than one Chinese word, he'd realize the full-on moral panic that occurs in China every time something like that happens. It's all anyone ever talks about. People scream and yell and cry in the streets when stuff like this happens. But to crimo it's all "ching chong bing bong."

Do you see what I'm getting here Ichickman? He brags about only knowing one word of Chinese, but he doesn't understand a single thing the Chinese are saying, so he just fills in the gaps by himself, and assumes the worst. In this case, he filled it with the most tired anti-Chinese stereotype in the book, one from the 1800s when America was covered in those "Stop Yellow Fever" signs. Back when they were saying whites were a different species, except for Irish, who are actually "Pale-skinned nigros." If he actually bothered to pay attention to the people he's always criticizing, he'd realize what a big complex society this is. He seriously thinks all the Chinese are going "Rape kill little Child! So fun! Oh my lady gaga super cool funny times!" or something.

You know how localla pisses you all off by making stuff up about foreigners that are obviously completely untrue, and just a mix of her imagination and anti-foreigner stereotypees, and we know this because our experiences as westerners, but there's just no getting through her thick skull? That's how I feel about crimo. Except localla is rarely around and doesn't shit all over every single thread like crimo does.

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8 years 2 days ago
 
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I think in light of recent visits to old posts....we should revisit this one.

No...I think you have a valid argument.

 

I think the CCP are racist...but not for traditional reasons...more for control.

The best way to eliminate criticism at home is to stoke the fear of the the unknown, manufacture threats...and a dumbed down manipulated populace is ripe for the picking.

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4 years 41 weeks ago
 
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Shifu

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In America some urban schools are setting lower bars for passing the black students than the Asian and white students, because the black students are not expected to perform as well as the Asian and white students. 

 

The soft bigotry of low expectations, it's more common than you think. 

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4 years 41 weeks ago
 
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General

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am black and u a big fool

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4 years 41 weeks ago
 
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Wow, that is pretty racist. Admin, are you going to allow this?

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4 years 2 days ago
 
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