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Q: So, after your time in China, what bugs you about your own nation?
I think it was famed Canadian Journalist Tom Kennedy who said you can't properly understand your own nation until you leave it for awhile. What gets me about Canada is the fostering of mediocrity. Don't get me wrong, Canada and Canadians have done a lot of great things from curing diseases to inventing things to peacekeeping to being a feared military, but I find the business and academic climate here almost discourages ambition.
I see a nation constantly trying to prop up the losers and beat down the winners. It all starts in school. There's a set way to do things and if you can't fall in line you're a misfit. If you don't aspire to be an academic (with "Canadian" values) then you're regarded as a trouble maker.
By contrast, from what I can figure, the US seems to encourage mavericks and risk, whereas Canada puts way too much value on being rational, polite and safe, to the point we're famous for it. Bugs me.
Sometimes it bugs me how much simpler and less 麻烦 everyday, menial tasks can be. Oh wait, no it doesn't.
I don't know how much these things have to do with me being in China as tbh I've spent my entire adult life traveling all over the world (including the UK, obviously), but things about the UK that irritate me, (in no particular order).
Welfare dependent work-shy yobs.
High cost of living.
Anti Social behaviour.
The 'state owes me a living' attitude.
Growing rampant racism.
Vandalism.
Nanny state, wtf has it got to do with government, whether I drink, have sex, smoke pot or anything else that harms no-one else?
I am NOT saying some of this doesn't happen in other countries and China, I am saying they irritate my about the UK.
nevermind:
Yeah, I've even noticed that with my British friends, I get a sense there's far too much trust and authority enjoyed by the government. I meet so many Brits that are totally cool with the amount of surveillance going on there. And when I confronted a friend of mine about he said Canadians were too whiny about their right to privacy.
Hugh.G.Rection:
I've a theory about that (don't I always), it's a disassociation with the political system and hence government. The people don't think their vote has any effect (only one of two parties, in reality will win) so they lose interest, Because they lose interest they stop caring, because they don't care, they don't protest.
Add to that the 'British way' of suffering in silence / don't rock the boat attitude is still prevalent so the few who do protest are seen as thugs, students, ne'er do wells, or just plain anarchists, and thus should be ignored, (and largely are). It all adds up to a system where you can do anything to 'them' so long as you don't harm 'me'. It sucks is stupid, ignorant and VERY short sighted.
jknox00:
Constantly amazes me how Brits brought the western world a 'warning letter' in the form of a horror novel '1984',
yet,
were the first to obediently created and obey a 'Big Brother' state and it amazes me how they accept it! I remember the first time I saw CCTV cameras actually following me.. disturbing.
Coming off trains to police dog gauntlets and seeing people taken away to be 'frisked' and questioned. Having airports undercover agents tailing me around and of course detained at Customs as a PC token about 50% of the time.
The dumb thing is that some Brits have stood up to this and was it some admire journalist? A respected ex-checker rumpole on the bailey? Even a Jeremy Kyle exposing Big Brother (not the game show) or FFS I'd take one of those Fleet st rags but no..
..that nutter David Icke with his 'reptile monsters' ironically actually has, in his paranoia done a good job exposing, challenging and warning folks about the real creepy 1984 in Britain.
But in China I can find a nice place, drink a beer, have a smoke and be free.
That's a nice feeling.
Everytime i remember how lucky my sex life is in here...............The only thing i'll be sleeping with in my country is my pillow and that pillow won't be under my head if you know what i mean.....Seriously talking with no BS
As much as I am disparaged by the rampant self glorificication in China I am equally disappointed by the self gratifying nature of Canadians.
I never thought I would think this way but the overly PC attitude here drives me nuts...and the over-regulation of everything.
Diverse experience always gives you perspective.
I miss the freedom of China and soon I will enjoy it again.
I think my left wing libertarianism is poking through.
Hugh.G.Rection:
libertarianism? left wing???
I was a member of the Libertarian Party UK, before I left the UK but I stopped membership before I came to China because the UK version were only half-assed libertarians, (heck they were even for keeping the NHS, what kind of libertarian is that?).
However, life in China has led to some re-evaluating of whether some people could genuinely handle a system where there is so little (i.e. zero) welfare / protection from the state for those at the bottom of the food chain, is that the very thing that has led to the 'me me me' outlook of so many Chinese?. I still haven't come to a conclusion on that 're-evaluation'.
nevermind:
Hey Hugh, I don't understand "libertarians" who talk about rules for being a libertarian.
Anyway... yeah, the PC crap in Canada gets on my tits too. If you want to have a smoke in Vancouver you have to stand six metres from a doorway. I'm not even a smoker, but this is just stupid.
thedude:
I am more of a social issue libertarian.
Social monetary equality is more about children and less about lazy parents.
I am more libertarian in regards to personal lifestyle choices (war on drugs...abortion..sexual preference) and less about income re-distribution.
There is always a balance between taking care of those in need and those that abuse the system...but what about their children? Do we judge and sentence the children of lazy people simply because of ideology and the bottom line?
Hugh.G.Rection:
Fair point nevermind.
I don't see them as 'rules' just 'expectations', I expected people with similar views to mine (as they were then), I didn't find that so I left. I wasn't expecting them to follow rules. Although there is a significant difference between libertarian and anarchist. Most libertarians believe in rules that protect against violence to the person and theft etc. A friend of mine once described 'my' version of libertarian as 'minarchist' i.e. a mix of minimalist and anarchist. I kind of like that.
However, as I inferred above, I'm no longer certain that outlook is possible or even desirable, given my experiences in China.
The way teachers in Australia endlessly complain if there are more than 25 students in their classroom. After teaching 50 in a classroom for so long, even 40 to me sounds like heaven!
Canada should do that thing where street signs say "north/south" or "east/west". That was really nifty.
But other than that China is one tiny step up from Somalia in my books.
981977405:
Thank you for the comment re your book.
I have been looking for it on the best seller list. Can't seem to find it.
One thing I really do like about living here is being away from a popular culture that I find to be more than a little oppressive at times. I understand that people have the right to their own entertainment, but once something gets popular enough I feel as though other people are foisting it on me. I mean the way that I can't turn on my car radio with hearing the same 20 songs or so repeated over and over, or that I can't turn on my TV without seeing some ad for something I find to be equal parts incomprehensible and despicable. I'm sure that China's consumer culture is every bit as ubiquitous if your Chinese, but as I foreigner I enjoy not being the target of it. Right now, I am actually pretty happy living inside my expat bubble. I wonder if I'll be able to take it with me after I leave.
nevermind:
Yeah, when I first got back I realized I had missed a lot of crap I didn't care about.
First would be the LACK of legs. People in NA are so fat. After my first trip to China, that was the most shocking thing. It was like I never noticed before how obese many people are. Even teen girls are fat. BTW I like really skinny women.
I grew up in Toronto, spent half my life living in the city, the other half living rural, I used to think social programs were a good thing until I moved to the country. The majority of people living in small towns are collecting something. Who pays for this? These people feel they have a right to do nothing and get paid. They respect nothing. Try renting a house. I had someone house sit for me while I was in China. Look after my house and pets and I gave free rent and I paid all the bills. I came home to find my house ruined and pets not cared for. I've been home 5 months and still don't have the house fixed.
We are so over regulated in Canada and taxed to death. I can fix anything, never worked in any trades professionally. I built my house in my spare time, yet I can not legally fix a kitchen faucet. I have to get a building permit and hire a plumber.We have so many OPP and they took over for town cops, but do little. The OPP just write speeding tickets. Hell in China I can run red lights and no one cares. I can drink beer in public in China, try that here. BTW. never been drunk in China. The forces are getting so big that the majority of my taxes now pay for policing, not education. The Counties have also gotten so big with personal that they are broke. We have 30 welfare counselors where we had 6 a few years ago, no population increase.My taxes are approaching what a city house may be. Yet I don't have water, sewers, buses, street lights and my road is full of holes. This is my pet peeve, paying for garbage pick up now. The price goes up, so people dump their garbage or renters don't put it out, just in the back yard.
What I miss most about China is that at any given time, I can not count the number of good looking women I see. I see nothing here and I now seem to have a taste for Chinese women. I just looked outside, the only female I see is my dog. hmmm felt good to vent, thanks.
nevermind:
What province are you in that you can't legally fix a faucet? That sounds like a stretch, you may wanna check into that again.
But you sure are right about small towns. I can't stand that "small town pride" badge of honour bullshit. I've lived in about four small towns across Canada and they all had one thing in common, welfare bums and delusions they are part of some Norman Rockwell-like community. I also find them rude as hell. "Oh city boy, eh? Suppose you're up here to tell us how to run our town" yes asshole, I am.
TedDBayer:
Ontario, Prince Edward County. I'm right about the building permit. Building permits to build a house start at $30,000. Imagine, I own a property and have to pay that just to build a house? What do get for that, just permission. The building inspector doesn't do anything and is an idiot. But I have to stop and show him every stage of building. BTW I'm fixing my house with no permit. Most municipalites claim they are broke. Bad management. The local municipality have new buildings too. Home Depot etc can not sell me a garbourator unless I am replacing one. If I am installing one, they can not sell it to me. I need a permit. Those temporary tent style garages, you need a building permit,,, yes to put up a tent garage. A large tent for special occasions,, need a building permit.
nevermind:
Yeah, you shouldn't be having to pay 30,000$ if they aren't at least servicing your lot. You pay that in cities, but that includes hooking up your plumbing and power. A big part of the problem in small towns is that mayors want to give the appearence of growth so they'll spend money on crap that isn't needed, like new buildings.
TedDBayer:
Most branches of provincial and municipal governments, not sure on federal, used to burn their budgets at the end of the year, because they can't ask for more money if they have money left over. So they just spend on crap. My friend does survey, he loves school boards at year end, they want surveys, so he just gets the disc out and prints an old one cause nothing changed. They just burn it all. I do know fedral departments spent so much and could draw extra some how, that wasn't in the budget. Not sure how that worked. I was a federal employee. A few years ago the Liberals were laundering money through different departments, just handing money out as long as you made a party donation. That scandle didn't get the news coverage or peoples response I would have liked to see. The government stold from our pension funds as there were billions in surlpus. Half of that was employee contrabutions. I was surprised that there wasn't a national strike over that. Half of that money belonged to employees. They could have made the pension better. It's still 35 years for full pension and it gets clawed back at age 65. After 65 I will get less pension.
TedDBayer:
Hydro does the hook up for free, connecting to water won't cost much if I did it mayself,Not a big job to have done, Besides $30,000 would buy a nice car.
jknox00:
Ted
One of the things I have noticed about Canada is that we are in serious danger of over-regulating nearly every aspect of our lives.
Again - something I never really appreciated until living abroad and especially in China.
Of course the popular thinking and 'bright side' is that we DO catch minimum levels of e-coli in our factories and destroy the meat ensuring nobody is sick.
We do keep our towns sensible and orderly as someone can't just build a home-made children's theme park in their background,
however,
I now see us choking ourselves. Stalling Canada. Killing innovation, stifling commerce and dulling us down into a go-nowhere country where we might be 'safe' but at a dead crawl.
Not to mention the negativity and frustration and you are an example of that.
And I don't know what it is in us. We (even the public) can just keep agreeing to more and more. It's as if we are masochists. We (even the public) are instantly wanting to demand 'They oughta regulate.... X, Y, .. whatever I dislike!"
Goverment is often happy to do that.
More rules and regulations is more fees, more hours, more control.
At what cost?
I have nearly concluded I do not own my own house. I don't mean the bank owns it either (which is true too) but what I mean is that I can't really do anything to my house and property!
Not without my 'landlords permission' and that's the municipality and a stunning variety of rules, regulations and oh ya.. fees. fees. more fees.
I nearly had more freedom RENTING than owning!
But its just across the board in Canada and while I DO understand and appreciate good regulation - I am now convinced Canada is just stifling every aspect of life with over-regulation.
Again - Canadians will say they hate it but simply ask someone the right questions and they will happily help bring in regulations.
"Do you think the government should regulate the noise level of diesel trucks?"
"I hate loud diesel trucks... YES! Yah.. I agree that should be regulated! Fine them too".
Anyways, we did it to ourselves. I see the benefits of less regulation elsewhere and think we can use just a little bit of that in Canada.
TedDBayer:
I tried getting papers that said I was single and able to get married before I went to China. I had to got to the Justice of the Peace, swear out an affidavit, having notorized and professionally translated. I live near a small town. Then send it to Dept of Foreign affairs, forgett what the fee is, and they wanted 7 weeks to process. I thought the whole process would cost me about $500 for a paper that says I've never been married.WTF? I didn't couldn't do, didn't have 2 months to wait. In China I can go to an embassy, swear it and pick up the papers for $35 on the same day. WYF? Thats just an example of the BS in Canada.
Boring. Predictable. Those are the things I dislike most (some of the time). During my time in China I complained about the chaos the most and it is also one of the things I loved the most.
Even though I didn't partake in the darker side of China, I miss seeing it everywhere.
As far as my government goes, in China I knew I didn't have a choice how the government did this or that, so I didn't even give it thought. Here in the US, I am told that I am supposed to have a say, but in reality the power is in the hands of lawyers, super PACs and lobbyists. It is the illusion of control that I am supposed to have that drives me nuts. At least in China they were upfront about not giving a crap about the average citizen. The US just smiles at you, pats you on the head and says, "Yes dear" then goes ahead and does whatever it damn well pleases.
Scandinavian:
Seriously, isn't China also boring and predictable. It is easy to predict the job will not get done the right way the first time, it is easy to predict people will try their best to screw you over etc.
Well it's not like the American system doesn't beat down abnormal either, although once you graduate, you're able to be yourself. I think one of the things I really noticed is how ungrateful American people can be. I worked at a grocery store for 6 years, and almost every customer would complain about how high food prices were. Some even blamed it on Obama. One thing I do admire about the Chinese is that they'll do whatever they can with whatever they have (although that can easily lead to abuse of power). I know that used to be a big part of the American spirit and the American dream, but it's fallen by the wayside. I'm not saying that there aren't Americans who do whatever they can either, it just seems to be a rarity.
TedDBayer:
People are generally well off. I'm better off than my parents who were way better off than my grandparents, but people are so miserable, complaining. Even old ladies swear like sailors. People didn't swear like that when I was a kid.
i really hate the american people. we have freedom, the right to vote but we do not put it to good use. we vote based on abortion, gay marriage or some other nonsense. we do not focus on the more important issues, our soldiers in harms way over BS and lies, fixing a corrupted election process, fixing our schools, lowering the rising and extremely expensive cost of living, finding a way to really lower our tax burden, becoming energy independent , dealing with people who abuse public assistance etc. there are actually morons who believe that if a woman is raped she will not get pregnant because god will intervene. there are morons who would not vote for a guy unless he believed the earth was made in 7 (literally) days or if they believe the earth is older than 3000 years. i need a beer.
Get out the calendar and mark down this date because...
...I 100% agree with Nevermind on something.
And Kennedy was certainly right about this - you travel abroad and strangely 'learn more about your home country'.
You may well see the good too. You 'always took for granted' and now appreciate when elsewhere.
But yep.. Canada has it's own 'tall poppy syndrome' and I'm convinced its something worse than 'cutting each down to equal size' but actually make a point of suppressing any 'poppy' that looks like a grower BEFORE its even starting!
We Canadians do this in the most subtle and constant ways. God forbid you simply share some exciting story of a place you visited in China (potentially showing off or trying to be bigger than someone else?) - usually suppressed by feigned yawns to show your story of success should stop.
Canadians are notorious for their feigned 'collective yawn with any haughty entertainers who think they are something special! Anne Murray.. yawn. I'm sick of Jim Carey. Yawn at anyone who's too famous in the USA.
We permeate our entire society from the justice system and yes it seems mandatory for any efforts to be kept 'nicely mediocre'. A bit boring please.
And yes it's something I admire about Americans and more so after being overseas and seeing the difference:
Americans, (maybe to a fault) LOVE to cheer a hometown hero. They LOVE to find an upstart and actually boost them up, boast them up, produce 'stars'.
They even have (this will freak Canadian out) but they even put banners and slogans on their citys signs "Welcome to Anytown USA - Home of _____ Great inventor ___ NFL Star_____Microsoft Founder___
They might even do this to a fault (over aggrandizing fallibe men and setting up big falls) HOWEVER the point they DO encourage their upstarts,
and,
As nevermind points out - Canadians really have to wave away, suppress, make any 'maverick' or unorthodox scholar/businessman/innovator 'calm down'.
Can't have that. Come on this is Canada so don't get carried away. Play it safe. don't get all crazy.
*and what about this - how have we forgotten guys like Bell, Bombardier were the 'crazy dreamers' who came up with 'outrageous ideas'.
Honestly, today you couldn't get a CN Tower (remember at that time was just the most insane WTF are-you-joking thing).
I dunno.. its something wrong in our culture and yep.. I had to live and work in a few different countries and THEN it just becomes all too obvious.
I really don't know what the answer is either. Mediocrity has us more or less held tightly enough in its somewhat soft and ordinary clenched hand.
The free health care
The right too complain
The free education
My spouse being,entitled to work without restrictions
straight officials,who can;t be bought
We keep getting ourselves caught up in other people's business too often. I don't see this nation going to wars nonstop to the point where families have to weep that there child can never come home. That's what bugs me. We can't just stay put!
If the good stay quiet the bad have won.And at this moment in History the U.S.A,are a beacon of peace, a light of freedom,for them who do not have a voice,they are losing their sons and daughters,and as an English man i respect them
If the good stay quiet the bad have won.And at this moment in History the U.S.A,are a beacon of peace, a light of freedom,for them who do not have a voice,they are losing their sons and daughters,and as an English man i respect them
Overpirced housing, job market that sucks, over regulation.
here in China, you can have a try and if you fail you just try something else, back in the UK you need licenses and money, if you fail you're bankrupt!
Hi nevermind,
Thanks for the comments about Canadians. I love my country,it's natural beauty,a lot of great people,yes..the opportunities to get really creative,start new businesses,etc..educational opportunities,government safety net which China doesn't have,etc..but the political gridlock in Washington D.C. is JUST PATHETIC!!!!!!!!!!!! Fiscal cliff?! You've gotta be kidding me!! :( This is why my Congressional leaders have a 20% approval rating with the American public! (I think this is right. Don't quote me but I think I'm pretty close.) Whereas, it used to be a much more respectable 60%.
Red,white and blue
What bugs me? The apparent disconnect of the freely elected representatives of government from the very people that elected them. The disconnect between the House of Representatives and the American people is almost a perfect disconnect. The disconnect between the Senate and the American is nearly as bad. A freely elected government belongs to the people and not the inverse. I only pray that things will improve and I blame no single party for this.
mattsm84:
Yes, but the disconnect is only "apparent." In reality, most people tend to like their Senators and Congressmen. While Congress usually boasts rather poor approval ratings, most of the people in the legislature enjoy a high approval rating among their own constituency. That's how over 80% of incumbents can win their elections while only 1 in 5 approves of the body that they belong to. The reason for this is that Americans have profoundly different views when it comes to how they wish to be governed. Congress's low approval ratings then are actually the result of the people in the legislature doing an excellent job representing an ideologically divided country. In fact, one of the reasons that a compromise on the fiscal slope is so difficult is because if any member of the GOP were to break rank and say that they'd be fine with a tax increase they would likely lose their next primary election.
China and USA and people are ridiculously alike. The longer I stay, the more it become apparent how not very little is really different.
With all due respect to the OP, "famed" Canadian Journalist? London bureau chief of CTV news, which I have hardly heard of, OK, but not famed as you write. The late Sam Donaldson was famous and famed as were others. A little bit of an overstatement, I think.
nevermind:
He's famed in Canada, you jibroni. People can be famous in their own nations without being famous in others.
981977405:
Considering that this is a China forum, and considering that the Canadians on this board make a minority of the total members, as vocal as they may be, then that is a very finite amount of persons here that would informed as to the "fame" of this one particular person. This is not a player on the world stage whose fame transcends national boundaries, not at least according to your definition. Perhaps a better term might have been something like "a journalist well-known to certain segments of the Canadian population" or something much more finite.
mattsm84:
Ah, I see what the problem is. 981, when you hop on internet message boards and pretend to be a westerner, you should be aware that we tend to take people from outside of the UK and US at their word on this sort of thing. People from Canada, New Zealand, Australia, and Ireland tend to be very pleasant people that the rest of the world usually sees fit to ignore (to their benefit, as they are lovely places), and while what they assert about their own countries may or may not be wholly accurate, it really doesn't mean very much if you, as an America, a Brit, or even as a Chinese person pretending to be from one or the other depending on what day of the week it is, call them out on it. In fact, it just makes you seem like a jerk for belittling them and their country. I'm not trying to abuse you, in fact you should consider this constructive criticism. I mean, you'd be much better at your job here if people weren't so willing to dismiss your opinions and comments because you act like a twirp.
981977405:
Mattmsmd, thank you for your exceptionally gracious, well-phrased, charitable and decidedly genuine remarks. I have always felt that your comments just bring a whiff of something special to this board. I do not take them as criticism at all but simply admire the depth and candor of the language that you display.
nevermind:
As I already said once, you twat, just because YOU haven't heard of someone doesn't mean they aren't famous. And just because they aren't famous in every country doesn't mean they aren't famous.
