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Governor

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Q: is there any teaching position for an Indian teacher

I am from India completed my masters degree from University of Pune. Now I am looking for a teaching jobs in Beijing ( China ) for the subject of science and English language but I am not able to find a job who prefer Indian teachers also

8 years 41 weeks ago in  Teaching & Learning - Beijing

 
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Comments (18)
Posts: 267

Governor

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I guess the best advice is... keep trying!!   

 

Look for jobs specifically related to your field of studies and experience... Chinese people don't think Indians are native speakers, that's why they don't prefer them. I am tired of telling people that Eng is our official language, and we basically do everything in Eng... but Nope. If you still want to go ahead with Eng teaching, look for jobs in smaller cities. Teaching science is a good idea though... you could try to emphasize on that... maybe it will click somehow. 

 

Good luck!! 

 

Shining_brow:

As you're no doubt aware, "official" language and "native" language are two very different entities!

 

As an example of this that I can think of, Switzerland has four official languages - including German, Italian, and French, and yet very few (about 30,000) might claim Romansch as a 'native' language - out of a population of over 8 million Swiss.

 

I'm NOT saying there aren't Indians who have English as a native language - only that 'native' and 'official' (even if used throughout all school years) are not the same thing. And when a language is not the L1 of a person, then that L1will transfer various traits onto the L2 etc... one obvious example, especially here, is sentence stress and intonation, as well as some consonantal pronunciations and shortened vowels.

 

The OP is CLEARLY not a native speaker of English (or was badly educated in English)... the grammar is off and incorrect collocations.

8 years 41 weeks ago
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8 years 41 weeks ago
 
Posts: 3269

Emperor

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Indians have accents. Yours may be less pronounced, but it is always there. Indians and Pakistanis can't make a clear /t/ sound, for example. Parents don't want their kids to learn One, Dwo, Dree.

Karma101:

First of all, I never heard anybody counting one, dwo, dree maybe someone just did it for fun when you were around, I don’t know!

 

Maybe you are right, butt when it comes to teaching Eng in China, It has very little to do with accent… Indians have hard time finding a teachers job for the same reason African Americans do. You can’t deny that, now can you?

Let’s talk about accent, to me American and British sound different, you can’t say one of them is right and the other one is not… English is a Language “a system of communication”. Indians have tried to adapt it and learn to pronounce the sounds slightly different which were not present in their L1… JUST LIKE THE REST OF THE WORLD.

 

The best way for Chinese to learn English is they need to comfortable with English, just the way it suits them. I keep telling people that if they need to communicate with western folks they need to be comfortable first, after all English ears are much more adaptable… People in west are used to listen to different accents … Even though Indians have an accent, still they can communicate with the rest of the world, and that’s the whole point of the communication isn’t it? 

8 years 41 weeks ago
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coineineagh:

chris rock made a pun about exactly this: he went to africa and was asked "what language do you speak?" "eh.. English?" "No, i mean what language do you speak when you're at home". African Americans speak English at home (with heavy slang; let's not go there), not Dravidian, Gujarati or Bengali. No disrespect intended, but being a commonwealth nation does not grant native English speaker status.

8 years 41 weeks ago
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Shining_brow:

Coin - how did you not go Hindi first, given it's official standing????

 

Karma - I know it probably pisses you off, but as an IELTS examiner, Indians (and Pakistanis) do lose marks on pronunciation, as the L1 does influence 'inteliigibility" by the rest of us. UK, US, Canadian, Australian, NZ and Sth African tends not to so much - as we don't have (nor do we live in a society surrounded by) an L1 with different intonation patterns. Also, the /dh/, /kh/ /gh/  distinctions aren't relevant in English, and so aren't emphasised as strongly by us. There are vowel changes (shortenings or lengthenings), but is usually understandable.

 

I HAVE worked with a good number of Indians - both back home in Australia (whos accents have moulded with Australian), and also talked to FOB from India students here in China. While mostly understandable, I'm often straining to understand them, and there are definite patches of speech I have no idea what they've said - even after repetition.

 

You might say '"It's not fair. We speak real English!" Fine! But, you have to face the fact - Indians in general have an accent that is CLEARLY different from that of US or UK Standard English. It's not 'right', it's not 'wrong' - it's different. You're used to it - we're not! And THAT"S what 'communication' is about!!!

 

I do write 'tends' above, because sometimes those accents DO affect intelligibility. My Aussie friend went to Edinburgh (not the pronunciation of that word!), and had no friggen idea what a waiter was saying!!

 

It's also to be noted that this L1 transfer occurs in writing! Following a Prescriptivist* theory of language, the Present Simple tense is to be always used for emotional states - I love ice cream, not "I'm loving ice cream". However, this 'mistake' is typical of many Indian writers. It has, however, entered into Standard English - but only circumstantially.

 

Indian English is certainly a 'valid' version of English - however, at this moment in time, it's not a Global version, as British and American English is. (note, Aus, Canadian, NZ, SA English isn't either... but we've been brought up with one or the other - or both - of the first 2. She'll be apples when all blokes and sheilas start talking about dunnies, eskies, frog and toads, and technicolour yawns! :p)

 

(*- this is arguable - should we follow a Descptivist theory of language, or Prescriptivist? TBH, I'm on the fence!! IELTS is clearly on the latter.)

8 years 41 weeks ago
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Karma101:

Well, quite honestly nobody is asking for a “native English speaker status”. My point was simply this, every little government paper in India is in dual language (one of them is always English) or simply in English. And since people are using so much of English, I think they are well capable to teaching basic language. But here they don’t really expect to learn a foreign language, they only expect to copy the way natives speak, which has its obvious limitations… As I understand, no matter how long someone lives or studies in a foreign country, you can never be as fluent as a native speaker... Chinese “urrally” blame it on lack of exposure to language, with Indians, they started speaking to each other in English, and hence the gradual evolution of the accent. 

Guess what, every Indian is fluent in 2 or more than 2 languages (It’s not dialects like in Chinese like to say it, but a real freakin different language)(not even counting English) so How many foreign languages is a native English speaker fluent in? no

8 years 41 weeks ago
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Shining_brow:

Unfortunately, Karma, yes - people ARE after "native English speaker status". TIC! Is it 'right'. No. But it does happen.

 

Unfortunately, also, research shows that if someone is learning more than 1 language from a young age, both languages suffer (slightly). In the first few years of schooling, it's been shown to be obvious, but it does sort itself out by the end of schooling. So, having more than 1 language can be detrimental.. though I would obviously suggest that it more of an advantage.

 

The fact that the majority of NES only speak 1 language is rather irrelevant to the discussion about teaching the language.. What IS relevant, is one's education and ability to teach - and that's true regardless of nationality or background!!! Certainly, as has been discussed on this board many times - just being a native speaker does not make a teacher.. and, quite obviously, there are many many NNES teachers who are far far better - who should get that teaching job well in advance of the NES.

 

In regards to this particular OP... I'm not sure. As I pointed out - there are grammatical, punctuation, and phraseology errors that make me cringe. And if these errors get taught... :(

 

(PS - I disagree (if it is indeed what you mean). Many Chinese 'dialects' are in fact different languages. And, if that's not what you meant - then of course the different languages in India are distinct languages!!!)

 

I think you've seen me post enough on this topic to know that I'm totally pro-ability & knowledge, and not nationality or looks.

8 years 41 weeks ago
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Karma101:

 

Well Bro, I’ve read most of your posts, yes I agree with everything you have to say…  

It’s impossible for Indians to get the Native speaker status, simply because they are …not. butt! I am a little curious to know, what if for instance we turn all Indians “white” but with current culture and languages… this could simply be one of the accent spoken by white folks. Will Chinese then consider them as a native speaker? Well... difficult to know!  This point is just out of curiosity!! It’s not about any type of jealousy or any other finicky emotion… I am pretty happy with the skin I am in, and respect all the races equally. I believe it’s the character that needs to be judged not the skin.   

 

About the Chinese dialects, the difference between the Chinese and Indian languages is… for all the different Chinese languages (maybe excluding Cantonese and mandarin, I don’t know) they use same script while writing… however maximum of Indian languages are completely different with it's own script. 

 

8 years 41 weeks ago
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Shining_brow:

Karma - I'm not sure exactly what you mean by turning Indians white, if it would make a difference... do you mean globally, or just in China? In China, yes, it would make a difference... that's why NNES (and possibly crap English speakers) from all over the world who are white get jobs, where non-white NES (even well qualified ones) don't get jobs. Looks conquer all!

 

Globally.. No, I don't think so. It's not about the culture. It already is just an accent of English - white folk or not - but for many, a difficult accent to understand (like strong Scottish, and some US accents (drawls - though, I acknowledge that they tend not to be the greatest examples of English grammar users :p)).

 

RE: Chinese languages vs dialects - I think, though I haven't studied this, that the written script that everyone now uses was imposed upon the people relatively recently, who kept their own spoken languages. So, yes, they are in many cases, mutually unintelligible. There were written scripts for the different Chinese languages in the past, but as one lot conquered another, they changed the writing, and forced people to adopt it.  The Indian scripts were different orally and written from way back.

8 years 41 weeks ago
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Noel05:

Perhaps, you haven't heard this ......

The last true Englishman standing would be an Indian .

8 years 37 weeks ago
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8 years 41 weeks ago
 
Posts: 1876

Emperor

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How about this: to become an English teacher in China you MUST be from the U.K/U.S, Canada, Australia or N.Z. That's the law and regulations as it appears on paper right from Uncle Xi's mouth.

Now, there are exceptions to every rule and you can be swindled, taken advantage of and prostituted should you choose to accept a non-legit job offer from a non-legit employer.

As Karma101 says, Indians and Pakistanis and Africans can be legally employed in China, but NOT as English teachers or those teaching in English.

So, why not try to find a job in the area that you are qualified in rather than face the frustration and futility of looking for a teaching job?

 

Chhris:

Icnif begs to differ.

8 years 41 weeks ago
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Sinobear:

Hence "exceptions"

8 years 41 weeks ago
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icnif77:

I hate being an 'exception'angel.

What about Fidu and the Bulgarian poster from Xiamen? They're both working with RP as Non.

 

I'm not sure, if Chinese law anywhere state 'only Native English Teacher can get WP....'.

I believe, it is Provincial SAFEA's decision on granting WP to Non.

8 years 41 weeks ago
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Posts: 3869

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Not sure what your science background is like but your English grammar is poor!

 

I was going to correct the multitude of errors but I can't be arsed! (How's that for "native" British English?)

ScotsAlan:

You are too pedantic.

 

English, as a language needs to evolve. Lets let it evolve.

 

 

8 years 41 weeks ago
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Hotwater:

Languages generally evolve with new words but the basic grammatical structure stays the same. 

 

If if someone is going to teach English then do it properly. I've no

problems with Indians teaching English....the best high school English teacher I had was Dr. Bhatia, an Indian and also a real English teacher (note the "Dr" in the way I addressed him, that's PHD doctor, not medical one!)

8 years 41 weeks ago
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Shining_brow:

I'm glad you said 'generally'.

 

When I get a new class of students, I tell them their priority is grammar - a) it doesn't change, b) it's what gives meaning (I then write up 'I play football" - and go through all the grammatical variants of this, to show all the shades of meaning).

 

However, it does change. Certainly back home, KFC has been advertising "I'm lovin' it". - from a Prescriptivist theory of language, this is wrong.. but in a Descriptivist theory, it's becoming more valid. I'm guessing this particular changes comes from Indian English...

 

BUT... yes, the OP does have some BASIC grammatical mistakes - SVA, phraseology, etc (and one, and only one, piece of punctuation - which can be ignored on a forum - but certainly doesn't give one confidence when looking for an English teaching job!)

8 years 41 weeks ago
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8 years 41 weeks ago
 
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Shifu

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Non native speakers working as English teachers tend to get treated badly, ripped off, or deported. You've been warned...

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Answer of the DayMORE >>
A: There are a few ways that a NNES can legally teach in China. 1. Thei
A:There are a few ways that a NNES can legally teach in China.
1. Their degrees are from universities in recognized NES countries.
2. They are a subject teacher with a legitimate teaching certification in their home country.
3. They are a highly accomplished academic (category A) in their field and are invited to lecture at a university. -- Spiderboenz