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Q: Why are Chinese so proud of the southeast Asian countries they used to "own"?
From experience, I have found it practically impossible to have a normal, objective conversation about Vietnam, Korea, and obviously Japan with most Chinese. It constantly goes back to what the influence exerted by China was, or just stubbornly on how countries like Vietnam were part of China before.
That's great and all, but it's been hundreds and hundreds of years. Why is this still even relevant? You don't see French people walking around winking proudly at each other about owning Italy and Spain during the Napoleonic wars (and that was just 200 years ago). Nor do you see Greeks, Persians, Italians, etc. high-fiving each other over their past empires.
I just don't get why a normal conversation always has to be bogged down by completely irrelevant and, in the end, nauseating national pride for things long, long, LONG past.
It's well noted in SE Asian countries. I have moved to Vietnam and I love having conversations with my (adult Vietnamese) students about other countries.
They're always hugely positive about Oz, NZ Canada and all of the UK (although the words 'Scotland' and 'Wales' take a HUGE amount of concept checking and I have to explain that 'owned by England' is not an acceptable definition of said nations. I digress...)
They think the French are tossers, although they've adpted wholesale a lot of French food traditions, so that's a win. They love the rest of Europe.
They like Korean pop culture and want Japan's prosperity and Singapore's cleanness. Sensible.
They're a wee bit conflicted when it comes to the US. They love the culture and aspire to the ideal US lifestyle. They're less impressed with the whole 'decades of devastating war', thing.
Then we come to China. Cue a collective round of "WE HATE CHINA!!!!!!! CHINESE!!!! WE HATE THEM!!!! WEEE HAAAATE THEEEEEMMMMM!!!!!!!!!!!!!" Asking why doesn't gather that many results usually, something do with their governments and emperors and invasions.
GuilinRaf:
Hey! You DID get to Vietnam! Great! I am glad to see that you seem to like it there!
In Guilin I have had similar conversations with my Vietnamese students. Since I am American, they are probably much more diplomatic about the USA, however, i myself am very much aware of the history of the "Vietnam Conflict". But as for the rest, it is indeed almost identical to what you have written. They do add that they had an "incident" with P R C in 1979 or thereabouts...
MissA:
Yeah, there was an 'incident'. The Chinese forgot that Vietnam is not impressed by superpowers, and China wasn't even a superpower at that time, but both sides claimed 'victory', whatever that is.
In all honesty, I don't know any American who says they've ever actually gotten a hard time here. On the contrary, American people are always super popular and most Americans seem to love life here. But if you talk about America the concept, they always do feel the need to add "we had a war, they invaded us, it was horrible...." (no, crap, really????)
Heh.. That's a good point... The USA took over a lot of land around the South China Sea and Japan during World War II to get a foothold against Japan..
"500 years ago Chinese people used the sea around that land!".... "Yes, and only 50 years ago, the USA were the only people who cared enough to actually be ON that land and nobody dared to try to make the USA go away.... Today, nobody cares to live on that land so it's owned by NOBODY... Now the Japanese gov which the USA gave control of the land over to doesn't let anybody, including Japanese, live there. What's your point? "
"It's Chinese land!!"... because the Chinese news says so...
"Chinese never lived there, in fact, in the known history of the land only Japanese have tried actually living there but don't anymore. The Chinese just drive their boats around that area but never actually live there so they have no claim over the land. A few people riding in a boat waving flags doesn't change anything"
"It's Chinese land!!"... because the Chinese news says so...
No point arguing with Chinese.
If Americans were Chinese we'd be running around high-fiving ourselves about how The Moon and Mars is all American land.. Because once-upon-a-time we stuck a little flag there and/or sent a little robot there.. If the Chinese set up a base on the moon and lived there, their base will be their land, and Americans wouldn't argue that.
diverdude1:
Excellent analysis. I looked at a map published by National Geographic today, from my POV it looks like they are part of the island chain known as Japan. I'm just saying that is what it looks like to me, a guy who doesn't know anything about it.
blah:
unless yankees can watch and protect the moon and Mars, otherwise, it is ussless no matter how yankees claim the moon and Mars are your lands.
actually, like south pole who arrives there and finds a place, who own that piece of land. So far, only a few countries are capable of explore the south pole.
your arguments are completely meaningless.
giadrosich:
Well, I guess that means the moon belongs to Yankees, seeing as how they were there first. However, the Mets might have something to say about that, right?
MissA:
Errrrrr, Blah, the US has maintained a base at the geographic South Pole for the last 50 years.
It's called the Amundsen–Scott South Pole Scientific Station (and was established, back in the day, by the US Navy). Now, so far you've managed to rhetorically gift the US the moon and the pole, shut up before you give them the rest of the bloody world.
the dispute over the islands in japan have nothing to do with the islands since no one lives on these islands but its the oil rights and gas rights in the south china sea is what it is about 
MissA:
Bugger! The thumbs down was an accident from me, I was trying to thumbs up and it went horribly wrong...
It is Chinese land.
Japan wants to help US go back East Asian. They are strategic alliance.
Dispute in land is an excuse for that.
In addition, no matter who the land belongs to, it has nothing to with how many people live there. History talks, you cannot change history, that's the reason and evidence.
i lived here for a long time and i have no idea what the hell are you talking about
blah:
The us has navy base in Japan. Japan wants US to continue to station in Japan for helpping Japan expand the influence in Asia, especially Eastern Asia.
Dispute over that small piece of land will involve US to mediate. by that time, Japan and US will press China to hand over that land to Japan.
US military base will work again in Asia.
