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anonymous
Q: Why judge others as imposters?
I am neither a westerner nor am I a native English speaker. Like me, many other foreigners on this forum post questions/comments with badly constructed sentences or with English that has a lot of grammatical flaws. It surprises me to see the kind of responses that such questions/comments elicit. Instead of addressing the issue raised in the question, some people find pleasure in dismissing the originator of the question as 'an imposter who wants to appear as though he/she were a westerner'. Some comments go like ' from your question, you are not a native speaker of English!' Yet in most such cases, in the question/comment the person did not claim to be a westerner or a native speaker of English - he/she simply asked a question! The impression I get is: some foreigners here think being a westerner or a native speaker of English is the best thing in the world for, if such were not the case, why, of all the places in the world, think that the originator of the question is 'trying to be a westerner' when they have not made any claim to that effect in their question? And, I could be wrong, the tendency I'm talking about suggests there are some members who think this is a forum for westerners or native speakers of English. I'm convinced it's not, much as the majority could be from the west or native speakers of English! It's a forum for foreigners - westerner or not, native English speaker or not. Is my observation wrong?
Yeah, some of the people here get excited and automatically assume anyone without perfect English is Chinese. Heck, if it's posted anonymously, even with perfect English, they have doubts. I don't know why they care so much. I don't care if the poster is Chinese or not. I only care if they act stupid all the time or are just trolling, but even then I do not accuse of them of anything (except stupidity). People here need to take a chill pill.
I've been guilty of judging some people too quickly in the past.
But only because we've had a few very very very aggressive posters who've clamed to be something they obviously were not. We generally have a pretty peaceful little thing going here and it often provides a stable counterpoint to the often unstable expat experience. Some of these people have blown through the place like hurricanes, making every thread on the front page a ego-driven flame pit. And all of the super-trolls on this site have claimed to be something they were obviously not, in one way or another.
So, a lot of the long-timers have grown overly-suspicious and testy towards n00bs. It's only natural.
I've called people in the past.
Every time I have, the person has said something along the lines of "I am from the US. Then I go to China last year," or something else blindingly obvious.
Now, what you need to understand, anonymous poster, is that although all of us make typos and are lazy/overly colloquial sometimes, there are certain mistakes that a native speaker would simply never make. It can make them very easy to spot. I don't know if you've studied the grammar of our language, but I'll try to explain. For example, 100 times out of 100, we will type the correct version of an irregular verb (to take the example from above). It's the small things that give people away: irregular verbs, articles (a, an, the) pronouns (he, she) and prepositions (on, under) that are common stuff-ups for second language speakers but not for native speakers.
Even some of the forum posters who freely admit that typing ain't their strong point (hello, philbravery) never make these mistakes.
Does this matter? Yes, and no. For a person like yourself, no, it doesn't matter at all. I'll read through a badly written post, gladly, if the person has something of insight and honesty to say.
But, if the person is saying 'I come from the US, and...', or "I am a westerner from America, and...', then it's different. They are lying, falsely claiming to come from somewhere they don't, and speaking on behalf of a nation/group they do not belong to. Then, it makes me wonder why they would do such a thing...
ED: by the way, I was not saying the OPs writing was bad, in fact, it's very good 
Perhaps look at it from this perspective, OP. Let's say I moved to your country and studied your language like crazy for two years. I'd be functional, but by no means on the level of a native speaker of your language. If I started posting on websites, saying "speaking as a (OP's countrywoman)..." that would be disrespectful to you and your country, and I guarantee you would be able to pick up straight away that I was talking crap. And for people to do it here is disrespectful to our countries (but mostly the US, because most false posters claim to be Americans)
kchur:
The he/she thing is a good example, because it very specifically reflects Chinese first-language interference. Since most of the other major world languages (including east Asian languages) distinguish between male and female personal pronouns, it is a mistake that pretty much only the Chinese make, and man do they make it often.
Jnusb416:
Not only is the he/she thing annoying, sometimes it's really confusing. There have been times where I'm not sure if someone is talking about a guy or a girl because they keep switching the pronouns, and if they're talking about a guy and a girl, well then...
crimochina:
missa you hit it right on the head. and note to anon. if you are truly who you say you are bring up the posts you are referring to. and the comments made. when i see an anon post like this i think "why are you posting this anon? you have the potential to make a valid point." but the fact is whenm someone is full of shat they usually post anon. i will call put anyone who claims to be something they clearly are not. usually it is by someone who is chinese trying to make foreigners look bad. ie. foreigners always drinking so much white spirits. (because chinese dont get drunk)
Shining_brow:
No, MissA completely missed the point...
And I'm disappointed.
While I totally, 100% agree with what she said about those liars who say they are American or English, or Aussie, etc (ie, saying they are native speakers), and then it's obvious they're not (although, also against what you said) it's not always easy (there's one regular poster whose English confounds me..), there is another part that is totally WRONG!
And that part (which the OP was getting at) is that: Western =/= native English speaker. It would be rude to bash on a Spaniard, or Norwegian, or Swede, Bolivian, Nigerian (etc etc etc), just because their English is crap. And, for a few of those examples, they ARE indeed 'western' (ie, Spanish, Swedes and Norwegians). (FTR- MissA's 4th paragraph)
MissA:
That's a good point re westeners, actually, Shining, although I don't think that's the OPs main point. I've added two words, that were meant to be there from the start, to reflect that my post is not a study of who is a 'westerner' (horribly overused term) or not, it's addressing his native speaker comments. You've misread my answer based on two missed word in a long reply... As I specifically said, I don't care if a poster is a native English speaker or not, and there are plenty who are not who add a great deal of insight here. Mr_spoon, there's no need to be American. You're fine as you are!
Shining_brow:
... oh, "from America"... sheesh! You really wanted me to hunt down those 2 words, didn't you?? :p
I agree - I hate that 'westerner' word as well - because it's become a catch-all term for something that is so un-catchable!!!
i cant accept anything you say because you are posting anon and you dont reference a post to show as proof. back up what you say , lets see what you are talking about. who knows you might have a valid point.
Q:i was insist by a chinese friend to eat.....
yesterday i went to a restaurant with some chinese friends and they ordered FROG nd ask me to eat that but i refused they insist me to eat that shit , did you ever got situation like that when are forced or insist by some one to eat some thing you cant even imagine of......
1 day 23 hours ago in Food - China
is this you? be a man/ woman stand behind what you post. who called you an imposter???? beef up on your reading comprehension. (if this is what you're talking about)
:
this is wha i got here .....read it and see wha they talking about me
1)i think you better learn to speak and write english before you post your next question
2)You tell me, wajidkhannn, since you are Chinese. Why do Chinese people always ask white guys if they are American?#
these are the comments i received from and many others i am looking for my past posts and when i will see those posts again i will inform you for tht ,so dont worry ,keep ur head cool ,you sounds like you are really pissed of from answer i think so
crimochina:
now you see what happens when you show some stones and dont hide behind the curtain. you actually make a valid point. although i agree with much of what aroberts said about you . the one area i would have to call her out on (i'm sometimes guilty of the same thing) is where is it that you claimed to be an american? i read through some of your posts and dont seem to claim any where. but i am sometimes guilty of seeing this site as only chinese and expats from western english speaking countries.
and your point is well received. we do need to be more careful of who we call imposters.
aroberts42:
The person who wrote this OP is not waji. As someone who actually has a master's degree in English and teaches grammar (in the States and in China), there are signs that a writer is 1) not a native speaker, and 2) is specifically a Chinese writer. The OP of this thread is not waji in any way shape or form. I also do not believe the OP is a "non-native English speaker" either. However it is possible waji asked a friend to write it for him.
But on the impossible off-chance that waji is the OP, then why are his hundred of other useless posts written in the worst broken English possible? I find it highly offensive and out of place in a forum designed to offer real help to people.
crimochina:
aroberts: many imposters purposely write a certain way when they are in character. when they are out of character they try to write normally. i dont know either way , but something fishy is going on here.
MissA:
Great point aroberts, I also wondered why this post was written in flawless English, which contrasts with the actual point he was making. It is very formal, however. Strange. The style and standard are definitely not Wajid's.
:
yeah this post was not mine and right i cant write a good post like this but i have o say one thing thing that this post pissed you all and you are trying to save your face here now but you cant thats what it is .........you cant hide reality it is what it is .........
crimochina:
i asked is this you? and then you responded as if it was you. aroberts points out the different writing styles now you say it was not you. who is trying to save face?
MissA:
wajid, the originalal post did not piss me off, he (she?) in his (her?) post attempted to make a point, but he fundamentally misunderstood why people get called on their grammar. As I said above, 'fake' posters piss me off because I don't want somebody who does not belong to my culture pretending they do, and then getting it all wrong. He was under the impression people are called on their grammar because of some cultural superiority complex. Not the same thing.
nevermind:
waji, all this "pissed off can't accept reality" talk is moot. You think we care more about you than we do.
I don't like you because I know what you are. A little bitter Chinese guy coming on here pretending to be a foreigner to;
A - pretend to be a foreigner defending China to make it look like foreigners agree with China on certain issues
B - Pretend to be a foreigner to make foreigners look bad.
Just go away.
:
it was not me who posted this question and you all know this and what make you think that its me crimochina , and i told you now you are trying to save your face and you are holding your ground bt it will nt work you are jus making false statements trying to save your self and if you read this question from start then you will come to know who is talking about who
nevermind:
And the fact that you're making claims I am "holding my ground" and trying to save face again show you are Chinese. Westerners don't think that way.
As any person here what my posts reflect when it comes to my opinion of you. I may be wrong, maybe you ARE not Chinese. But, as far as I am concerned you are Chinese. I don't give a crap about face, if I am proven wrong, I admit it.
That's what westerners do.
So, where is you CLAIM to be from?:
MISS A ,did i said anything like i am from your country or your culture and any way where are you from i think you are another American trying to defend other thats what you do...........what if some one is not from America ,don't you think he is a foreigner hahahahaha and you are talking about i am pretending to be one of you hahahaha i got my own culture i am not from AMERICA so .....means i am nt a foreigner??????????????????????? do you think only Americans are in china as a foreigners?
:
nevermind ) are you some kind of judge here and who are you to call me a Chinese i told you before you don't even have an idea where i am from ,and i can sense you all i had a long time with Americans and i can say they were good but here i got some people who are defending each other by some false statements ....feel pity for you all
:
doesnt mater where i am from and i am telling you i am not chinese nor amercian then do you still got some problems ,i think now it will be alright for ya,
nevermind:
"Still got some problems"
Classic Chinglish. As is the use of "pity"
Tell another one, Chan.
Shining_brow:
WTF is going on here??? How did this turn into an all out attack on Wajid??
Nevermind said: "And the fact that you're making claims I am "holding my ground" and trying to save face again show you are Chinese. Westerners don't think that way.".
Bah! That's crap!!! 'Westerners' think like that all the time! Given we're in China, I'd be willing to accept that as standard English usage now (we have that term in Australia "saving face", and I'm sure the other English speaking countries use the term as well). Look at almost any argument - someone usually plays the idiot and refuses to see sense (or try to make sense).... that's holding ground, or saving/keeping face.
Wajid - I'd always figured you were from (or have ancestry from) the Indian Sub-continent... India, Sri-Lanka, Pakistan, etc
crimochina:
these are recent posts by waj: anyone notices a difference??? someone has slipped out of character
wajidkhannn:
MISS A ,did i said anything like i am from your country or your culture and any way where are you from i think you are another American trying to defend other thats what you do...........what if some one is not from America ,don't you think he is a foreigner hahahahaha and you are talking about i am pretending to be one of you hahahaha i got my own culture i am not from AMERICA so .....means i am nt a foreigner??????????????????????? do you think only Americans are in china as a foreigners?
wajidkhannn:
nevermind ) are you some kind of judge here and who are you to call me a Chinese i told you before you don't even have an idea where i am from ,and i can sense you all i had a long time with Americans and i can say they were good but here i got some people who are defending each other by some false statements ....feel pity for you all
nevermind:
Using the term "Saving face" and actually employing it in an argument on the internet are two different things, shiningbrow. Plus, most people try to save face in an argument of semantics. Not on a stone cold fact like where waji is from.
This became an all out attack cause this little peon is constantly posting threads that insult foreigners or make stupid comments while pretending to be a westerner.
You can accept that if you want, but I will not. I think it's actually that Fritz guy who claimed to be German some time ago
Many of you are making valid observations - it's just not right for a person to claim to be what they are not. However, I think very few people answering this question are addressing the real issue i.e. if a person doesn't claim to be a westerner ( in his question/comment), why slam them as an imposter, who is claiming to be what they are not? I think that's the main issue in the question. Second, others like Crimo are saying, & I quote 'i cant accept anything you say because you are posting anon'. I think whether posting as anonymous or not doesn't change anything, really! After all I see no difference between an anonymous poster and someone who contributes under a n unreal name because in the end both have one thing in common i.e. they are hiding their identity. Look at all the names of posters here, are they not meant to hide the identity of the posters? They are ....so not different from an anonymous poster.
MissA:
Ahhh, I think we have the OP here! I can see the point you're making and you're right, people who do not claim to be native speakers should not be called on their writing. BUT, in all the cases I can think of, where somebody has been called an imposter, they have specifically claimed to be from English speaking countries (and usually the US).
:
MISS A ) you told me in your last post that i am pretending that i am from your BIG amercia and i am mixing your culture and blah blah blah can you show me one single post where i posted that i am from amercia or i am a us citizen can you show me that and if you cant show me any single post of mine where i pretend that i am from US then i have to say you are a big lier and u r gtting pissed you from my post hahahahaha because i didnt post any where that i am from amercia or some thing like that ..........................
MissA:
This is getting pointless, but here goes. Wajid: if you're going to be so pugilistic, at least read people's posts properly. 1. I don't know or care where you are from, I did NOT say that you claimed to be from anywhere. Your comment said that original poster had pissed the repliers off, I disagreed, and attempted to explain what DID annoy me. There's a big difference between saying 'false posters piss me off' (which I said) and 'you are a fake poster (which I did NOT say). 2. I'm NOT American. I am, as I have written here many times, Australian.
crimochina:
hey jackass if you are going to quote me get it the puck right "i cant accept anything you say because you are posting anon and you dont reference a post to show as proof. " when someone uses the word nand that links the 2 ideas together. i did not say or. if you would have posted anon and given a reference to what you were talking about cool but you were just speaking in generalities. look at his point ttotal. this account was just created to make it appear as if he is the OP. he is clearly not because this is his only post.
HugAPanda:
Most of the ones you have seen "slammed" ( I prefer the term, "called out"), have at one point or another either stated they were from somewhere Western (usually America) or have eluded to the fact. To be honest, once they have been... discovered or called out, it isn't easily or quickly forgotten. Call it a mob mentality if you will, but it's gotten to the point where we don't forgive or forget so easily. As of late, there is only one, our resident New England ExPatriot, who seems to be redeeming himself.
hahahahah you couldn't even post this under your original name? ! And got a friend to do it?
yeah, you have lots of credibility now, buddy!
crimochina:
my guess is this is one of his many alter egos. you notice how waj's english is now formal and nor broken, textish, twitter gibberish.
HugAPanda:
I think it's,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, Localla. How I've missed her.
Part of the problem lies in the format of the question, or of the general topic. there are those who ask a question with a specific intent - pro-Chinese. Sometimes, it's from a person who it has been suggested is only making those posts for their 5mao. Hence, why pulling someone on their English. If not for the 5mao, then purely for the eCities points to buy stuff...
Which basically boils down to - if it seems a ridiculous question (or either anti-'western' culture, or pro-Chinese culture), then it's often taken to be merely trolling... and done by a Chinese person.
I haven't noticed to many threads where someone as a non-native English user asked a 'legitimate' question (not one of the above 2), and then got flamed for their language skills...(unless, that person is asking something just silly, possibly for the points)
And This is why I drink
who gives a flying F@$k
they will always hide behind the anonymous option trying to drag us in to their wank fest
we all have a good idea which Skitso dose this and it isn't he who posts to much this time
and we all have his number. (hint hint)
Just have some fun with it till the Cat decides to shred it.
and show this nut job the contempt he deserves
Have A Nice Day
People who claim to be locals and make valid arguments for their beliefs...regardless of English writing ability...are always welcome here.
Too many times people have tried to pretend they are someone else and it is so obvious they are not it gets annoying.
I don't give a crap about grammer or spelling...as long as I can understand what someone is saying.
here is my thoughts on this. someone who has been here for a while as a phony and created many alter egos is upset because with waj, he did not claim to be from a western country but was still revealed as an imposter (good observation aroberts) so he posted this anon to try and figure why? now as you can see waj english style has changed. he is not taking the time to purposefully write broken english. bona was a new account created today to try and back waj up . bona was created today that account could not be the OP. Waj, and i'm pretty sure we all know who is behind that account as well has been exposed. you notice 2 prolific posters are missing from this thread.
crimochina:
another reason you could tell waj is chinese he is lashing out at america. calling people american who arent or who did say boo about him
:
caz i know no one criticize on other people ,except Americans and thats what pissed you off ,GET SOME ICE FOR YA
:
hahahah crimochina GO GET SOME ICE FoR YA ,......and one more thing if i have to ask any thing i will ask it and i will show my name i don't need to hide behind my post ,because i don't care for your comments and i don't care for any one else comments on my me or my question ..........you can just sit there and comment on others thats all you got ........i told u i got big issues than this..................see ya next time ,fr now i have to say GET SOME ICE AND DRINK ALOT TODAY hahahahahaha
HugAPanda:
seriously?
Americans are the only ones who criticize?
What locked up sheltered dungeon did you squat in? Have you met the French? Have ya heard about the Italians? Have you seen the Brits? German? Irish? Dude, the world isn't Switzerland. It is full of different cultures critiquing each other.
Kchur, what part of America did you grow up in? The really North Western part that's in Canada? And Nevermind? And Phil is from the America down under... the land of americoz. And IceRock... he's from Xi'an, New York. And Yaya, he's from Beijing, North Carolina.
You're tellin Crimo to drink. I don't think you left him anything in the bottle.
philbravery:
Hugs my dear darling honey pot
Please don't use my name in the same sentence as America anything
nothing personal but in general I hate getting tarred with that brush
although the feathers do tickle. 
HugAPanda:
honey poopoo head... it's early (for me) just go with it. :)
crimochina:
that military base means you are our lap dog. and soon to be 52nd state ;)
crimochina:
No to PR you had your chance and you turned us down canada is number 51. but we'll have to carve her up so she may actually be 51- 65 .
carry on BUHAHAHAHA i got big issues than this topic , you people have alot of free time you can guess what every you want ,say what every what you wana say , but in last you can get some points nothing else and you all lost your grounds and trying to save your faces so carry on and again BHAHAHAHA if i have to post question like that i would not post it as anon ,i would show my self ,and i know this question pissed all of you , so carry on ...........till you lose your energy and get some points ..................i didn`t see any one here but liers ,racist, and people who post nothing but false statements ...................CARRY ON GUYS caz i pissed you offffffffffff
crimochina:
actually this post has been very entertaining for me. and even more so because you now have been exposed as a chinese person trying to act like a non chinese. now you are back in character taking the time to write broken english. haha pathetic
crimochina:
waj: better luck with the next alter ego you create and a word of advice. make your next alter ego closer to who you really are. why do you feel you must portray yourself as a non chinese to try and post stuff that make foreigners look bad? the opinions of chinese locals are well received here even if people may disagree with it. when you are true to yourself people will respect you even though they disagree with you. suggest to your boss that you do an experient. wumaos who dont try to pass themselves of as non chinese.
:
poor CRIMOCHINA feel pity fr ya , tell me one more thing how many echina points you have got today commenting on all these posts ............BUHAHAHAHAAHA
nevermind:
Go back to providing reasons for your parents to wish there was a "no child" policy Waji.
God damn, what a loser.
Whether or not I agree with all the arguments on this issue is now immaterial to me. I now just like the way you people are working around establishing a connection between wajidkhann and the 'anonymous' and me, Bona. Despite the super analyses floated to link wajidkhann to the anonymous poster and me, the conclusions in that regard ( at least those to do with Bona/wajidkhann relationship) are all faulty. However, I'm learning a lot about analysis of information. Surely, I'm no longer the same as before I joined this discussion ( intellectually that is).
I really sympathise with wajidkhann, though, for the grilling he is being subjected to on this issue although I'm in no way 'related' to this poor victim of a million lashes. I just got interested in the topic because I too am not a native English speaker/westerner so I was afraid some day I could be a target of a similar beating as suggested by the original post. Oh, let me say I'm not Chinese, in case u are tempted to think that by sympathising with wajdkhann I am Chinese. In fact I don't care whether wajdkhann is a local or not.
philbravery:
I was reading the rants from our friend and had a feeling of de-ja-vous
remember the guy 189.........
He set the same seen as a humble humanitarian and then went off the deep end when cornered
the same as this one who claims to be a foreign Doctor yet has not had a say on anything medical.
there is always the same path to the skitso
well until now when he realizes he leaves these finger prints
read his answers yourself and see what you think
crimochina:
like a computer program they follow the exact same game plan. start off by making a post that pokes a an obvious but safe flaw of china. ie: bosses dont communicate (we have actually seen that post before) then start subtly poking at stereotypes of foreigners. drinking, going to clubs and starting fights with chinese (because chinese dont start fights) even artificial intelligence can adapt in order to not repeat the same pattern.
Bona:
Crimo, wondering if your comment is targeted at my post on bosses who don't communicate....though not very sure, I think u are. Honestly, though I appreciated your previous analyses that sounded logical to me ( despite the wrong conclusions), I'm afraid to say u are getting it all wrong on this one. My understanding of your comment is: Bona is a Chinese disguising himself as a foreigner & his motive is to shoot at foreigners here. I believe ur conclusion is based on the fact that in my comment about whipping non westerners/not native English speakers on this forum I seemed to sympathise with the victims of such whippings. U got it wrong: 1. I responded to ur question on where I am from...told u ( if u didn't see that) I'm from Malawi, Africa. 2. It's just not right to think that just because I'm a foreigner in China then it means I shouldn't point out what, in my opinion, are fellow foreigners' unfair/unjustified admonitions of locals or of other foreigners. I think the best way to go is to be objective in all our views. That way, one could sympathise or agree with views from one block on a given issue and disagree with a position taken by the same block on another issue ( not suggesting that this is a debate forum where there are 2 opposing sides, though). To me one where comes from matters less, as long as their posts carry issues worthy commenting on. If my 'bosses not communicating' post has appeared here before & it has resurfaced, I would expect u to know that means I never saw that kind of post. After all, the are so many 'recycled' posts on this forum. Go to posts on Relationships ( questions about getting Chinese girls etc) & Culture ( questions about spitting anyhow and all that stuff), you'll see hoards of 'recycled' posts. If an issue affects me today doesn't mean that I'm the last living being to be affected by that...the same issue can affect another later. Shouldn't that other person raise it,then, if it's of concern to them? Just doesn't sound a correct view to me!
MissA:
Phil, I had the exact same feeling when I read it. I suspect that's because Bona writes and that crazy numbers guy wrote with a very formal, learned English. I think Bona's legit; everyone give the guy a chance!
crimochina:
bona: if you are legit i apologize. but i'm betting against it.
Bona:
Well, Crimo I find myself in an awkward situation where I feel like I need to say apology accepted...But that also makes me a little uncomfortable as it somehow suggests I was offended & was looking for an apology which is not the case. Suffice to say there was no offense taken. Let's move on.
There just ignorant don't mind them just be on your merry little way!
Bona:
Crimochina, I'm from Malawi, Southern Africa.
Let me add, I must admit, I like your analysis/arguments & your line of thinking on this one...many others' are also an inspiration to me. I think I'm happy to be on this forum. As someone observed on the same forum, this seems more exciting than, say, facebook.HugAPanda:
"THERE IGNoRANT"? Really? REALLY? THEY ARE or They're. Not THERE. If that isn't the pot calling the kettle Chinese.
Shut up Yaya. YOU are one of the reasons we are a bit apprehensive about noobs.
We have, over the past several months, had several people spam, cause trouble, show abusive, belligerent behavior, start fights; and it has usually been... well.. IMPOSTERS.
What we have been subjected to mostly concerns imposters of one form or another (ie. one person using multiple personalities for various reasons; others have claimed to be either western or chinese to incite tempers and arguments on the boards). There has been a lot of hate-mongering and racial biasing to promote drama from people who claim to be one thing and are really another. It's the lies and the drama... it's hard enough to decipher who you are talking to online, why bullshit about who you are or where you're from. It's not like in a world with 7 billion people, someone from here is going to accidently bump into you and figure out who you are. It gets hard to look beyond the lies.
Most of us don't care where you are from, or if you are Chinese or not. Just be civil, and have an appreciation for a bit of sarcasm/snark. It isn't meant to be mean, most of the time. Just funny. There are a few self-admitted Chinese citizens on the board that we value and appreciate their participation in the conversations. There are even a couple who started as trolls, but turned around and became valued members of our little community.
And don't get me wrong... the westerners bicker amongst themselves as well. Kchur and I have gone at it a couple of times, as many of us have with others. In the end, we ain't got nuttin but luv for each other. Cept Yaya.
He's like the redheaded step child that we'd just like to lock in the basement and only let out to clean CAT's litter box and dry the bathroom floors after we've showered.
There's a gigantic difference between someone who learns English in Europe as a second language and someone who learns English in China as a second language. Chinese English learning is just so dysfunctional that most of those Chinese really don't have proper grammar or a good vocabulary. But a non-native speaker from some other part of the world is more likely to speak and write quite well.
People often joke about this in America, where the educational standards are rapidly sinking to Chinese levels. A German or Norwegian student will post something on the internet along the lines of "Sorry if my English is bad, but I want to say that..." and post something in perfect English, better than the average American can write.
MissA:
I love Europeans who, when you first meet them, apologise profusely for their 'terrible' English, then converse fluently and intelligently for three solid hours.... I'd love to be that 'terrible' at a second language!
GuilinRaf:
With some of them, I would like to be as terrible in my FIRST language!~
