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Q: Working legally question (for foreign sourcing company)
Okay folks, could do with some advice from those of you who keep up with visa/work permit/etc issues. I like to keep informed of what is going on but now looking for help with my own situation.
I'm currently working in China fully legally for a UK company who has a factory here (set-up, I think, as a wholly owned foreign enterprise). So had the Z-visa, got the work permit/residence visa and pay Chinese tax.
I'm been offered a new job, working for a UK based sourcing company, though they are legally set-up in Hong Kong. Currently they don't have a Chinese company set-up so can't employ me legally in China. They also haven't been running in HK long enough yet to set up their own Chinese company.
I'd be based in China all the time, working from home though traveling round factories 1/4 the time. I also want to keep my residency visa to be legal and in the hope that eventually I'd qualify for one of the fabled D visas. I've been married to a Chinese lady since April this year so almost 5 years to go yet before I'd even be considered for the D visa.
I've had a couple of thoughts of how to do this and would love your serious feedback on the options:
1) Have one of the factories we source from "employ" me. They'd have me on their books as an employee, pay my salary and tax plus sort out the work permit/residence visa. They'd be reimbursed my salary some way or another. I'd be in their factory probably once a month for a couple of days and they could say i work from home for them.
2) Pay FESCO to "employ" me, which we know can be done. But....they charge something like 25% of the monthly salary for their "services".
3) Get a 2 year residence visa based on the fact I'm married to a Chinese citizen (Q1 visa). This would allow me to live here legally but not to work in China. Now I've read other topics on here where people have been living here but earning money outside China and this was okay (or so they said!). So could I set up a HK "consulting" company of my own and get paid in Hong Kong? Work from home in China doing the technical work, with some traveling/factory visits in China?
4) Any other suggestions?
Thanks in advance for taking the time to read this.
9 years 43 weeks ago in Visa & Legalities - China
I have a colleague who was denied his residence permit after working in China for my company (medical research) for 6 years based on his age (66). He set up a consulting company based out of Thailand (where he likes to holiday) uses a multi entry business visa to perform (consulting) work in China. The issues are he can't stay in China for more than 90 consecutive days and the Chinese government taxes consultants heavily.
Hotwater:
Interesting way to do it but I don't want to go back onto a business visa here. Thanks
Im assuming you would be going back and forth to HK often. So I would reccomend getting the family visa through your wife. Getting paid in HK, and then doing a transfer to a chinese bank that you need for living expenses.
Through my company I have met many people who spend alot of time in China but get paid abroad. Even if its out in the open its perfectly legal so no one can do anything. Your company can NOT legally pay you in China. And as a sourcing agent you are the exact target of the Business visa. Come to China and buy stuff from the factories.
I have been in that exact industry for many years now and its certainly not ESL, no one bats an eye. Youll be more than fine.
expatlife26:
I concur, pay yourself in HK and just have your wife get you a visa.
You'll expose yourself to some exchange rate risk if the RMB appreciates...balanced by a bit more flexibility when it comes to moving your money around.
Based on the current proposal Mike I would be spending almost no time in HK. I'd work from home in GZ. Once a month traveling up to Zhejiang, Hangzhou, etc to visit factories Monday to Fridat. A number of days each month driving round factories in Guangdong (Shunde, Foshan, Zhongshan). When at home I'd be dealing with technical issues, CAD work, Quality reports, emails, etc.
It would be possible to get paid in HK and have bank accounts with (for example) HSBC in HK & GZ. That way it would be easy to transfer money in.
Getting the family visa is easy. Issues I see doing it that way is that we want a buy an apartment sometime and to get my name on it I'd need to be seen to still pay tax. I also plan to stay here long term and want the coveted D visa....and for that would also want to be seen to pay some tax to show I'm financially stable.
Difficult to call at the moment. Option 1 is looking best bet at the moment, just waiting to here if one of the suppliers would be prepared to do it.
expatlife26:
be advised, I looked into this once and they told me you needed a minimum deposit of 500K at HSBC before they'll start letting you move money around easily between HK and PRC.
That was almost 4 years ago I looked into that and who knows if the people at the PRC branch knew what they were talking about.
expatlife26:
Oh and yeah option one would be great. If you have contacts in manufacturing you have access to the best no-show job of all... QC!
By definition you're on the road constantly. Anybody comes to check up on you? "Sorry he's in Hunan at our subcontractor."
Best of luck dude.
You seem to be aware of the issues and options. I agree with you that option 1 seems to be the ideal solution, considering you actually want to reside in China, be eligible for a D visa, and want proof of employment and taxation here for purchase of property. I don't think it would be impossible to come to an arrangement with one of your suppliers or partners in China. Perhaps find a way of making the arrangement attractive to them. The only issue might be that the supplier/entity in China employing you needs to have the proper licenses to employ a foreigner, and this might involve some expense and run-around.
Not sure whether being employed through a FESCO is necessarily going to help you satisfy the kinds of requirements for purchasing property and obtaining permanent residency. Perhaps it does, I don't know. Labor contract law says that workers dispatched from FESCO should generally assume temporary, substitute or auxiliary positions.
Temporary residency based on marriage visa would be the most straightforward course of action, but how would it affect your ability to finance property in China (in your name) and possibly obtain permanent residency in the future?
So you should get some professional advice from an immigration lawyer.
Hotwater:
I'm waiting to hear back about the supplier. The one the company is talking to is able to employ foreigners ok.
Residency visa based on being married is the other option for now. After another year the company could set themselves up in China.
ScotsAlan:
Excellent answer edit. I agree with what you say.
Apart from the bit about the immigration lawyer. Is there such a thing in China.... immigration i mean.
Got the good news last night, supplier is happy to "employ" me! Just waiting for written contract now & will be resigning from my current job. 
option 3 is better one along with your spouse visa.
option 2: FESCO only can help you with the social insurance thing, you can not apply resident permit under their name. unless you pay a lot of money for them.
option 1： there is lots of foreigners doing this way. the question is that is the factory willing to hire you ? and you can not say you are hired by the company then you work at home. Although it is true, you can not tell the government officers in this way.
Hotwater:
Factory has agreed to employ me though need to agree with them a clear story if anyone ever checks on my status there. I'll be in the factory a few times each month so we'd look at saying I work for them as a technical consultant so can do most of the work at home.
