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Q: How do you think of stealing company clients for your own good?
A lot of international sales steal company clients for earning their own profits while still working for their employers.
Many of them get sucessed faster by this way and soon become self-employed. I happen to know some people like this.
How do you think of stealing company clients for your own good?
I could get successed with my own business already if I did that with the vacuum pump company I used to work for. As considerate of moralty to do it while still getting paid to work on the job by my previous employer,I didn't do that while I was working for him. As the result of morality,it's hard for me to make sales by contacting the old clients after I no longer working for my old company anymore. I start wondering if I am being too kind that I lost the opportunity for gainning my own business.
How do you think?
I think that stealing clients fits so perfectly with Yangist mentality, that any employer of Yangists has only himself to blame if things go wrong. Chinese people are insecure for good reason. They don't trust people for good reason. They can't be trusted for good reason. It's wby businesses stay in the family no matter how big they get. Ultimately, Chinese companies will be outcompeted by foreign companies who employ trustworthy specialists in a functional business structure where everybody cooperates for the benefit of all.
Your attitude will probably render you penniless within a generation. You may at that point contemplate why things went wrong. You did everything you could to benefit yourself and not others perfectly, yet you ended up destitute. How can this be?
Don't worry. The Mainland government is already asking the exact same question. They should have an answer for you soon: They set their greatest Yangist minds to the task.
coineineagh:
OK, I took thew time to read her OP, and it's a story of regret over missed opportunities. That's a typical Yangist mindset: "I'm too kind and moral. If only I had exploited the trust of another, I would have gained a slight competitive edge." And would this small advantage have made your life complete, catapulting you to millionaire status, allowing you to live happly ever after? Or would you still need to work hard to make a living? You are NOT kind or moral, you are basically a child who is thinking "If I had stolen my friends toys when I was visiting him, I'd have more toys now. I was too moral." Here's the jinx: People REMEMBER when you cheat them, and so do you. If you know you betrayed people's trust many times in your life, you will go through life nervous, jittery and defensive -- And THAT is exactly how the average starving farmer Yangist carries himself when he walks. Your body language betrays that you are untrustworthy! And even if the people you cheated never find you, the possibility that they might will always be in the back of your head. And eventually, you will look so shifty and paranoid, that people will spot your bad intentions a mile away. It's in the tone of your voice, it's in the questions and answers you give, it's in the way you look around the room. Face it: Yangism is a crap philosophy that doesn't work for the majority of people. I know the merits of trust and cooperation are not as tangible as a child would like, but they are real. Stick with trust, decency and reliability, and perhaps in time you will learn how and why it works better. In Holland they have an expression: "Eerlijk duurt het langst." It's a wordplay that basically means Honesty takes longer, but honesty also lasts the longest. If only Chinese Yangists understood this, they wouldn't be destroying their environment and society for a little bit of quick money.
silverbutton1:
"Stick with trust, decency and reliability, and perhaps in time you will learn how and why it works better." -You. I could say the same for "Stick with half-truths/outright lies, indecency, and vile cunning and it will work better. Case in point (by by no means the only politician) is Bill Clinton. There are so many facts about this man that speak volumes about how vile and evil he is, but yet there he is in all his "Glory"...having streets, buildings, etc named after him. No my friend, in conclusion it all depends on how well one can work the system, as the system is indeed gamed.
kasuka91:
You never thought that people in China sometimes turn to doing these things as a result of the starving farmer's mentality?
Once you're in China everything changes, many foreigners I've met who live here and do business can attest to that. Even they admit to resorting to nore unsavoury methods as a means to getting some kind of edge over the competition.
Just saying, we ain't in her shoes man. It's difficult to lecture someone about sticking to an honest living and being patient when they've only got a few hundred rmb in their account (or debt) by the time the end of the month comes, with a lot of young Chinese being in this situation.
RandomGuy:
This man is right. I can smell these people from far away around here, their body language, behaviour, way to speak, everything let you know what type of person they are and I want nothing to do with them. Many, many of them in China, everywhere.
coineineagh:
As a case in point, i sell dutch food and german medicines to people in China. My family makes more money than ever before. Holland and Germany aren't paradise, but at least people know the food is wholesome/uncontaminated and the medicines are not diluted or toxic. But, to counterbalance my point, my wife also buys from Chinese sellers in holland to satisfy demand. The sources seem reliable, but her customers all believe it comes from me, a confirmed honest source. My wife came close to being discovered a few times, but the extra sales are good for our family.
It's reprehensible and immoral - however, just standard Chinese practice.
Honesty with Chinese characteristics.
Chewbacca:
Do you think the rich people in your home country play by the rules? Do they pay the correct taxes or register their companies abroad? It is only the poor who play by the rules whilst the rich go the express route to the VIP section.
Kaiwen:
You mean those same business men that cry foul when losing intellectual property and being defrauded when dealing with the type of business you're condoning?
Kaiwen:
Then you support those schools that withhold teachers' salaries or pay them late. Unethical business practices are just that - unethical. You cannot cherry pick the ones you like or the ones you don't like. They all fit into the same broad category.
Stealing an employers' clients is no more ethical than stealing intellectual property from an employer or, indeed, an employer breaching employment contracts.
Chewbacca:
The system has a way of dealing with those that abuse it too much. If a business didn't pay people too often then no one works for the company and they go out of business. The ones with the smarts know when to break the rules and when not too.
Ha ha...classic that you even have to ask this question.
Ethics, contracts, trust in Chinese business...lol
"Should I be 'ethical', and not as rich... or screw people over and horde the money (and probably gloat)?"
Bearing in mind, that some people might take such betrayals quite personally, and you might possibly find your legs broken at some point in the future...
I think that stealing clients fits so perfectly with Yangist mentality, that any employer of Yangists has only himself to blame if things go wrong. Chinese people are insecure for good reason. They don't trust people for good reason. They can't be trusted for good reason. It's wby businesses stay in the family no matter how big they get. Ultimately, Chinese companies will be outcompeted by foreign companies who employ trustworthy specialists in a functional business structure where everybody cooperates for the benefit of all.
Your attitude will probably render you penniless within a generation. You may at that point contemplate why things went wrong. You did everything you could to benefit yourself and not others perfectly, yet you ended up destitute. How can this be?
Don't worry. The Mainland government is already asking the exact same question. They should have an answer for you soon: They set their greatest Yangist minds to the task.
coineineagh:
OK, I took thew time to read her OP, and it's a story of regret over missed opportunities. That's a typical Yangist mindset: "I'm too kind and moral. If only I had exploited the trust of another, I would have gained a slight competitive edge." And would this small advantage have made your life complete, catapulting you to millionaire status, allowing you to live happly ever after? Or would you still need to work hard to make a living? You are NOT kind or moral, you are basically a child who is thinking "If I had stolen my friends toys when I was visiting him, I'd have more toys now. I was too moral." Here's the jinx: People REMEMBER when you cheat them, and so do you. If you know you betrayed people's trust many times in your life, you will go through life nervous, jittery and defensive -- And THAT is exactly how the average starving farmer Yangist carries himself when he walks. Your body language betrays that you are untrustworthy! And even if the people you cheated never find you, the possibility that they might will always be in the back of your head. And eventually, you will look so shifty and paranoid, that people will spot your bad intentions a mile away. It's in the tone of your voice, it's in the questions and answers you give, it's in the way you look around the room. Face it: Yangism is a crap philosophy that doesn't work for the majority of people. I know the merits of trust and cooperation are not as tangible as a child would like, but they are real. Stick with trust, decency and reliability, and perhaps in time you will learn how and why it works better. In Holland they have an expression: "Eerlijk duurt het langst." It's a wordplay that basically means Honesty takes longer, but honesty also lasts the longest. If only Chinese Yangists understood this, they wouldn't be destroying their environment and society for a little bit of quick money.
silverbutton1:
"Stick with trust, decency and reliability, and perhaps in time you will learn how and why it works better." -You. I could say the same for "Stick with half-truths/outright lies, indecency, and vile cunning and it will work better. Case in point (by by no means the only politician) is Bill Clinton. There are so many facts about this man that speak volumes about how vile and evil he is, but yet there he is in all his "Glory"...having streets, buildings, etc named after him. No my friend, in conclusion it all depends on how well one can work the system, as the system is indeed gamed.
kasuka91:
You never thought that people in China sometimes turn to doing these things as a result of the starving farmer's mentality?
Once you're in China everything changes, many foreigners I've met who live here and do business can attest to that. Even they admit to resorting to nore unsavoury methods as a means to getting some kind of edge over the competition.
Just saying, we ain't in her shoes man. It's difficult to lecture someone about sticking to an honest living and being patient when they've only got a few hundred rmb in their account (or debt) by the time the end of the month comes, with a lot of young Chinese being in this situation.
RandomGuy:
This man is right. I can smell these people from far away around here, their body language, behaviour, way to speak, everything let you know what type of person they are and I want nothing to do with them. Many, many of them in China, everywhere.
coineineagh:
As a case in point, i sell dutch food and german medicines to people in China. My family makes more money than ever before. Holland and Germany aren't paradise, but at least people know the food is wholesome/uncontaminated and the medicines are not diluted or toxic. But, to counterbalance my point, my wife also buys from Chinese sellers in holland to satisfy demand. The sources seem reliable, but her customers all believe it comes from me, a confirmed honest source. My wife came close to being discovered a few times, but the extra sales are good for our family.
What do you think of asking a bunch of unknown strangers business advice for free and not being prepared to pay for a professional business advisor. This tells us all we need to know about your "business". It is typically Chinese, set up and operated at the cheapest level possible with the sole aim of diverting all possible income into the owners pocket. As to your op, what do you think about theft. If you accept that it is ok for people to steal from you then you may be able to justify to yourself that stealing from your employers is also ok. However the majority of people who have a sense of self worth and morals would say it is completely wrong.
Don't think about stealing customers from your old company,if your customers liked to work with you they will contact you by themselves and probably have some work for you .otherwise even if you contact them and try to make business with them ,they would not interested in working with you either.its a small world...for morality and for your own reputation don't do that...
What do you mean by "Steal"? Are the clients owned by your employer? To "steal" them would be unethical, to "earn" them would be OK. Let me clarify. If you gain the clients by stealing your employers database and just undercutting your employer then you are acting unethically. If you start your own business and provide a better service and the clients come over to you then you are acting ethically. It is not what you do, it is how you do it.
Viki87:
Can't you at least read English?
Already said steal the clients while still working for the employer.
