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Sign up with Google Sign up with FacebookQ: is 17000rmb a good wage to live in panyu with family including child schooling?
wouldn't bring a family, especially with children to China to work.
they would most likely not be able to communicate with the other children in the class and be subject to bullying from the children and harassment from the parents/grandparents of the other children.
17000 per month is no compensation for the trauma and emotional damage inflicted on a child used to another education system when subjected to chinese 'education'.
if you are looking for 'adventure' in your life, don't drag a family into it as well.
maybe just indulge in an ;extreme sport' at home.
is your spouse also going to be working in the same school?
if not working it will suck for him/her unless they are already Chinese or fluent in Chinese.
if your spouse will also be working, then your child/children will be at the mercy of the 19th century mindset for out-of-school care, as you would probably have to fork-out for an ayi.
and if the 'Panyu' you refer to is in Guangzhou, then 17,000 per month is pathetic for a family to live on.
bringing non-chinese children to China when a parent has to work there should be classed as child abuse IMO
Hotwater:
Depends where the OP is teaching. There's a Canadian international school in Panyu so the OP's kids more than likely will be in a school of multiple nationalities being taught the IB syllabus in English. It could go either way. For a lot of kids an international education can be good.
Blondie_:
@ Hotwater,
yes, the OP could be working at the International school, but the fees for one child would probably be greater than the monthly salary being paid.
even the combined salary of two working adults would be stretched.
quick searches online give the annual fees for an International school at about 300,000 RMB a year.
bottom line is that if you have kids and are thinking of working in China, you would want to be an executive in a multi-national that has the school fees included as part of the relocation package.
ironman510:
I just wanna say I have got 2 kids and raised them perfectly well their whole life in China. Remember parents that are parents at home raise wonderful children. 17,000 plus part time will be fine. There are many ways to make it work. Blondie I really really don't know what led you to believe all of this negative stuff about family in China but I can teach you and anyone else how to make it work.
Remember different places always offer other ways to do things, Keep an open mind.
Blondie_:
@ironman
there is a big difference between those who marry in China and raise their families here, as they could be availing of their spouse's houku in terms of education and health-care, and those transplanting their children in from other countries and educational systems.
Those who have a Chinese spouse can avail of the family for back-up and support - they know the score, whereas those arriving in to work in China without having thought things through from a financial and social aspect, can add additional stresses to their family life.
i am not saying it does not work, but most of the time local education costs and medical costs are not factored in by the unprepared, especially when child medical costs can add up even at home.
non-chinese children tend to be the focus of unwanted attention and comments from locals who would probably see them as fair game.
depending on the age of the child, he/she could be unable to cope alone in an educational setting, having also to deal with cultural issues as well as a very different approach to learning.
i for one would not advise a parent bring a child into China on a 'whim' unless you had good knowledge of the quality of education the child/children would receive, and not some BS from the school.
to be honest, unless the OP provides more details such as the school and the package provided, this is all pure speculation.
Anyone i know who has been asked to relocate for work does a thorough investigation into the these things, usually through their company who would have receommnedations
Is accomodation included as well as the schooling?
How many kids do you have?
You'll get by but it's not a huge salary. Though depends whether you eat out a lot or cook for yourselves.
wouldn't bring a family, especially with children to China to work.
they would most likely not be able to communicate with the other children in the class and be subject to bullying from the children and harassment from the parents/grandparents of the other children.
17000 per month is no compensation for the trauma and emotional damage inflicted on a child used to another education system when subjected to chinese 'education'.
if you are looking for 'adventure' in your life, don't drag a family into it as well.
maybe just indulge in an ;extreme sport' at home.
is your spouse also going to be working in the same school?
if not working it will suck for him/her unless they are already Chinese or fluent in Chinese.
if your spouse will also be working, then your child/children will be at the mercy of the 19th century mindset for out-of-school care, as you would probably have to fork-out for an ayi.
and if the 'Panyu' you refer to is in Guangzhou, then 17,000 per month is pathetic for a family to live on.
bringing non-chinese children to China when a parent has to work there should be classed as child abuse IMO
Hotwater:
Depends where the OP is teaching. There's a Canadian international school in Panyu so the OP's kids more than likely will be in a school of multiple nationalities being taught the IB syllabus in English. It could go either way. For a lot of kids an international education can be good.
Blondie_:
@ Hotwater,
yes, the OP could be working at the International school, but the fees for one child would probably be greater than the monthly salary being paid.
even the combined salary of two working adults would be stretched.
quick searches online give the annual fees for an International school at about 300,000 RMB a year.
bottom line is that if you have kids and are thinking of working in China, you would want to be an executive in a multi-national that has the school fees included as part of the relocation package.
ironman510:
I just wanna say I have got 2 kids and raised them perfectly well their whole life in China. Remember parents that are parents at home raise wonderful children. 17,000 plus part time will be fine. There are many ways to make it work. Blondie I really really don't know what led you to believe all of this negative stuff about family in China but I can teach you and anyone else how to make it work.
Remember different places always offer other ways to do things, Keep an open mind.
Blondie_:
@ironman
there is a big difference between those who marry in China and raise their families here, as they could be availing of their spouse's houku in terms of education and health-care, and those transplanting their children in from other countries and educational systems.
Those who have a Chinese spouse can avail of the family for back-up and support - they know the score, whereas those arriving in to work in China without having thought things through from a financial and social aspect, can add additional stresses to their family life.
i am not saying it does not work, but most of the time local education costs and medical costs are not factored in by the unprepared, especially when child medical costs can add up even at home.
non-chinese children tend to be the focus of unwanted attention and comments from locals who would probably see them as fair game.
depending on the age of the child, he/she could be unable to cope alone in an educational setting, having also to deal with cultural issues as well as a very different approach to learning.
i for one would not advise a parent bring a child into China on a 'whim' unless you had good knowledge of the quality of education the child/children would receive, and not some BS from the school.
to be honest, unless the OP provides more details such as the school and the package provided, this is all pure speculation.
Anyone i know who has been asked to relocate for work does a thorough investigation into the these things, usually through their company who would have receommnedations
Y17,000 plus 1 or 2 part time jobs will get you by, you should find away to make enough to pay your rent and bills by using Part time and try each month to save your whole salary, this is key to saving, and only use your whole salary 2 times a year during summer and winter school breaks so you can have some family fun. I just worry about the taxes after they tax that 17,000.
People knock me for saying this but only you can answer that question. Each person is an individual. I don't know your lifestyle, your wife's life style or whether or not your wife will be working, the age and number of your kids.
Where you're coming from plays a big part in what your expenses will be in China also . Add to the fact that you'll need to be ready to move when working in China. Chinese companies routinely screw over their employees and when your visa is tied to that company, you can't really settle.
Be a grown up, sit down with your wife over coffee and plan everything out . And remember to plan for emergencies. Hospitals in China charge upfront and will try to screw you also. (Ask any expat who's had to take their kid to the doctor here)
ironman510:
This coffee break reminds of the time when my wife got upset with me when she found out 120,000 RMB was missing from the bank, my savings bank account, she is Chinese and asked me where did the money go? I said it was for a down payments to buy a house in America. She asked: Are you planning to leave China? I said no. Than she went through her normal tiger anger fits as they call it in China and she asked why why why and I said: Because my working permit visa in China has this word on it: "Temporary"
And I finished it by saying: Where do I and the kids go when the party is over in China or some other unforeseen problem?
So if kids are here with us or born here we should make sure there is a backup plan.
Robk:
@ironman - I believe the same. Got to cover your own ass, Chinese can't really see very far into the future... that's why many of their parents always tell them what to do.
I think Chinese women can be too controlling with the finances and the tiger fits are childish. They have to understand foreign men don't react well to those actions.
Englteachted:
Marry the right woman and you won't have to put up with that BS
I have to agree with Blondie... I wouldn't raise a kid here in China.
It is just completely unsuitable to raise a foreign child here.
First thing first Panyu is probably the worst part of Guangzhou (or maybe Baiyun is, hard to decide), it's not really the city anymore but it isn't a beautiful countryside, most of it is made of sprawling industrial areas and poor districts for the people who can't afford to live in the city.
The local population is at >90% made of poorly educated or uneducated migrant workers with extremely rude manners and near to zero hygiene standards, they spit and urinate in public, they shower once a month and they will not hesitate to touch your kids with their dirty hands (think of a homeless on crack touching your kids back home, except they aren't homeless or on drugs here, but same if not worse hygiene standards).
There are some "enclaves" of civilization within Panyu such as Clifford Estates where you can live within the community with supermarkets, malls, hospitals, schools, etc... and never get out to other parts of Panyu, most of the Foreigners in Panyu actually live in those enclaves, if you are going to live there or in something similar then it's okay, elsewhere in Panyu I wouldn't recommend.
Now 17k is very very tight for a family, it may pass as a single person. You need to realize that while locals live on 2-3k a month, you can't do so. Why? Because Chinese people are used to live with very little comfort and to eat rice with veggies on a daily basis, you can't and don't want to do that, and you don't want to put your kids through that.
As a Foreigner, if you come from the West, expect to pay 3 times as much as you did back home to keep your lifestyle in China. Imported stuff is usually very expensive, especially imported foodstuff. Expect to be cheated, just because (you are a Foreigner), by unscrupulous people at any given opportunity, you will pay more than the locals for the same things if you don't pay attention. Some of them have even made a specialty of it, they know where the Foreigners live and hang out, they are ready to scam you, be it taxis or vendors.
One good thing with Panyu is you can expect your rent to be cheap, maybe 3-4k for a large 120-150sqm apartment in one of the enclaves, mostly because it's in the middle of nowhere, which will ultimately be compensated by the money spent on regular trips to Guangzhou just to keep your sanity.
dom87:
Wouldn't really agree to most points. Yes if you wanna live in panyu, clifford is the way to go. A nice apartment is about 5000 RMB per month.
My family of 3 can live actually very well with 3000 RMB per month. (I usually shop in Carrefour, which is not excatly cheap if I feast on German sausages :D
The thing that sucks your salary away is usually the rent.
ironman510:
Don't listen to Randomguy, now listen to me, if you got a family to support than you what you gotta do, thats the rules, if something doesn't work, than you make it work, if you don't know how, than come to me and I'll tell or teach you how. I have the whole book of how to make things work.
17k is hard if rent and schooling is not included.
17k - 4k Tax = 13k net
13k - 5k rent = 8k
8k - 3k living = 5k
5k - 1k utilities etc. = 4k
so you would maybe have 4k left per month if you dont buy anything like clothes etc.
not much to save.
My advise: 17k is only ok if rent and health insurance and schooling is included. Schooling obviously the most important because it can be up to 20k per month. But as the saving is as little as 4k you should also consider hospitals and doctors for you kid(.
ironman510:
The tax would not be that high, they have faopiao to handle that. And they might offer an apartment or allowance.
dom87:
Guess you cannot be sure that they do the illegal fapiao thing with his salary.
Tax is about 3.6k so not really much lower than I said
Like I said, if apartment is provided, it makes it much more doable.