By continuing you agree to eChinacities's Privacy Policy .
Sign up with Google
Sign up with Facebook
Q: Are we beating about the bushes or do we have a real concern?
Why should I mingle in the matters of Government or CCP or the like as a worker in China/host country? Being a silent spectator I have been through all the posts and comments and finally I get into the question that why are people concerned about the matters they have nothing to do with? I.g I am an English Teacher/Worker what I have to do with the policies, laws( unless they are against human rights/values) of Chinese Government/host country? How would you answer this question? <?xml:namespace prefix = o />
it is easy to opt out of life and say things are none or your business.
things won't improve/change unless people decide they want to be in a better situation and talk about the elephant in the room, whatever it's size.
"all it takes for evil to flourish is for good men to do nothing"
this applies to all countries
Samsara:
Excellent response, Sorrel.
China is indeed a room with a lot of elephants. And big signs everywhere assuring people that there are no elephants, and that talking about the non-existent elephants is illegal.
coineineagh:
Great use of a metaphor there - gotta remember that one.
Nothing, IMHO!
I wrote reply on the similar topic a week ago, so I'll be short: 'If I would have itch against my host country, I'd pack my bags and move. I wouldn't post on public tread!'
thefidu881:
You are absolutely right, If one doesn't like where he/she is working and living, the best way is to pack baggage and take the first flight to the ideal place which perhaps is Mars. :)
'loose change' there too"
?
I'd be more inclined to ask "Why should people keep silent?"
Why do you think there are topics I shouldn't discuss?
What problem do you have with elucidation and the exchange of information and ideas?
Why should humans not talk about the situation they live in and the things they observe?
thefidu881:
In fact I never meant to say,"keep silent". My question is why we are up to the matters arising conflict and of controversial nature? I do understand "Freedom of Speech and Thought" but criticism for the sake of criticism does not work. I would rather call it a blame game I have seen on this platform since last few days which definitely has polluted the environment of this page. We have the right to discuss events from our lives but if we are really up to things we are not going to digest then there is only one question left, why am I here?
Samsara:
This is a forum for expats living in China.
You might be happy talking about non-controversial topics like how "delicious" Chinese food is, how "friendly" Chinese people are, and how "profound" Chinese wisdom is.
But those are not the things I experience. Everything I observe about Chinese society will be "controversial" if I articulate it because the CCP does not like honest engagement with reality.
All authoritarian regimes try to make honest discussion "controversial" and then rely on people like you avoiding controversy.
What do you think silence and complicity will achieve?
Hotwater:
No way is the OP English! Very poor grammar & syntax. I smell an over-defensive local.
it is easy to opt out of life and say things are none or your business.
things won't improve/change unless people decide they want to be in a better situation and talk about the elephant in the room, whatever it's size.
"all it takes for evil to flourish is for good men to do nothing"
this applies to all countries
Samsara:
Excellent response, Sorrel.
China is indeed a room with a lot of elephants. And big signs everywhere assuring people that there are no elephants, and that talking about the non-existent elephants is illegal.
coineineagh:
Great use of a metaphor there - gotta remember that one.
Why, exactly,do you think it is a bad thing for people to complain?
In our own countries we complain, why not here?
Do you think we should just bow and scrape to almighty China?
thefidu881:
Cultural differences are something we cannot deal with all the time. Why should I complain about government or accuse the community as a whole if I got hit by a bike on a zebra crossing. My point is understanding why are we dragging the governments if something happens in result of individual acts? Yeah, I would like to complain any government going for or to support wars, breach of human rights events that could result in mass disturbance.
mike168229:
Do you come from a country where it is wrong or dangerous to speak out against the government?
I am used to free speech. I will complain about anyone I damn well please.
thefidu881:
My question has nothing to do with speaking against governments rather I wanted to know why are we so interested in the political scenario of host country which could be any country not limited to China. I asked this question in the background of some hateful and retarded posts and questions and the ultimate reason I found was, we take China as our home country and want to change the living style and culture. This sparked a hot debate over this page and even some one doubts me as a local.
I would clarify again that I didn't mean to ask anyone remain silent over injustice or violation of rights but to understand the cultural gap between the society we are living in currently and the society we belong to. People started to brag about it and linked to the same debate I want an end to. That's it
sorrel:
why would we not want to change the living style of the country we are resident in, regardless if it is our home country or not? Should i accept a bathroom that smell like a sewer just because 'this is china' and nobody else in the building complains?
It's hard for anyone to stand by and watch injustice happen everywhere. At least it is for me... I just can't shut up if I see something wrong.
thefidu881:
The question arises again, do we see all the injustices happening around us everyday here? There are cultural bearers I can see. An event might be injustice to me but fair to the local according to their culture/beliefs. I agree with you upon no one can stand injustice but the matter is blaming the government/(people in all) of host country is injustice to me.
Hulk:
The government is the reason the people are the way they are today.
The government killed Chinese tradition, culture, etc. The government made everyone turn in their neighbors and/or relatives. This has had lasting effects on China. The cultural revolution was an abomination of retardation.
Why not blame the government? Because _FUCK_ them, that's why.
thefidu881:
What I can see here is cultural gap and it is the people of a country to decide, not the government. I don't think so that is a government policy. why do we want Chinese people follow our culture and leave their own (whatever it is)? Why don't let them do what they want. 100 people cannot suppress a population of billion until the majority is happy.
xinyuren:
@thefidu: If you don't know that mainland China is the way it is because of government policy, then you really don't understand the situation. Maybe it's because you ask so few questions? maybe it's because you choose to be silent? your decision to not question and not speak out and demand answers has led to your ignorance.
Visco8:
'If nothing's said..then nothing changes !'
There's good reasons why so many Chinese are /want to leave China.
If you're complaining to Chinese people, you may want to change up the way you do things.
If you wanna complain to Chinese people about something then how you do it and the words you choose to express yourself with are key. Sometimes it is necessary to complain about conditions and treatment, or just grievances in general.
It's not wise, however, to be 100% straightforward about any of these things most of the time. People will just get overly offended and you'll find that they will be unwilling to help you after that. (Unless you're expressing it to somebody that understands things outside of China, then they may understand where you're coming from.)
Often times , merely bringing mild attention to a matter is sorta synonomous with "I don't like this." Such as, "They're working on the road again today." or "My teacher was late five minutes today." These appear to be general and mundane statements... but if somebody mentions these things, usually they are expressing dislike in a very subtle way. And this is a way that people usually choose to express themselves dealing with things they don't like.
If you don't like something about China, and you want to express it to Chinese people, then you'll encounter less resistance to your ideas if you just follow the style that their culture dictates. Otherwise, you'll probably be seen as abrasive or making wild accusations.
Nessquick:
Hey, do you think if I follow the dictate, that than I need to complain ?
I complain because I refuse to follow the dictate ...
andy74rc:
Very true. And one of the reasons why many things are still done without logic.
The argument "we are host, so we go with the flow, if you don't like it here, why you are here ?"... One can be in China not because (s)he wants it, but because leaving right now is not a smart choice. Say, you're married to a Chinese, and you need to prepare the jump to ensure a smooth transition. Giving time to your partner to get a hand at the culture of your destination of choice, if you care about integration. Or you started a career, and you don't want to burn boats : leaving a project in the middle, when you're a key member of the operation, for instance. I'm in such a situation, will leave soon, but there's a lot of things to balance, so it took time to make it happen.
As for staying silent... China is bleeding because of its citizen's apathy. Because nobody talk (and those who try get troubles), the bold one can take advantage of it. Greed, corruption, lack of empathy, lack of care for the environment are flourishing on silence and apathy. Chinese are, before being Chinese, my fellow humans, for which I have empathy. I can't watch people self-destroying themselves without trying to do something.
I perceive that you are a Chinese person and you have never been out of China. So your perspective on matters are rather limited. Your life is all you know and you have been trained not to question it. But if you ever decide to travel outside of mainland China, perhaps you will be curious. Maybe you will have questions and maybe you will draw conclusions. This is normal behavior from Westerners who travel to China. We are looking at this new, different environment and processing it. We criticize it's faults as well as acknowledge it's strengths. We even have lively debates about what we are experiencung. But never, ever will we remain silent about what we are witnessing. This is very different from your viewpoint as a Chinese, I know. Freedom of expression and communication is one of the major differences between our cultures.
My answer to your question is: forget about it. don't think too much.
thefidu881:
@ xinyren,
I am not a Chinese citizen. In fact I was born in a country that is by now a valley of death, terror and in no means I can compare it with any developed country, yeah its Pakistan except the people are hospitable. Well! it doesn't mean I am as ignorant as many people out there could be. I have traveled to 4 countries including UK besides China. I have studied History and Literature of UK and US and have worked with Americans. I don't want to discuss things happening over there in Pakistan but I must say that in the name of peace and justice American Government has added enough to the miseries of people in that region. I am here with a hope to learn and engage myself in positive activities so if I got a chance I could bring 'real light' with me. I faced lot of troubles for speaking the truth over there when I was a student even my family was threaten to stop me from these activities.I am not afraid of questioning any injustice happening around me but as per my experience I find it only cultural gap which need to be studied and accepted.
xinyuren:
@thefidu: forgive me for my mis-characterization of you. You certainly aren't ignorant. But you should know that the problems China faces now (and affect us daily) are a result of government policies past and present. You're right in saying there is nothing we can do about them. But we are humans and these matters affect and influence us. It is natural to express our feelings about them. Our intention is not to change China! That would be quite impossible. This forum is merely an emotional and intellectual outlet for our frustrations, shock, and sorrow that result from what we experience here. My answer to you is the same: Don't worry about what we say here too much. It's just an expat forum.
coineineagh:
I'm still unclear as to why you have this reaction to independent thought, if you're such a free thinker yourself. And what were you hoping to find with your Chinese brothers? Solidarity? A common goal? Better luck with the Americans, if you ask me... Chinese people WISH America would invade them! At least, they should. CCP is killing China.
thefidu881:
@coin
You meant the way America did in Afghanistan and Middle East. I have no soft corner for terrorism anywhere in the world but by waging a war do America brought peace to the countries she attacked? If America is so generous to share in the stability of world and care for people why is the 'Gold' evacuated from Ukraine instead of people? Grow up man! Let other asses and settle their problems by themselves. :)
coineineagh:
You are right in that regard. If America truly cares about spreading democracy and freedom, they'd be in places like Myanmar and China now. Instead, they're eliminating threats and stealing oil profits. If the way China handles Uighur, Turkmen and Tibetan separatists is any indication, though, you're better off dealing with the USA.
xinyuren:
@coineineagh: I think what he means is that life in China is more in line with his thinking and he has learned to accept the cultural differences. He is from Pakistan, not the west, so his expectations aren't the same as ours. He seems pretty opposed to America's handling of Pakistan and other places, so China may be the place to be for him.
thefidu881:
@xinyuren,
You got my point except the expectations which I have much more than yours. But the difference is I don't expect any civilized country like US/Any to sneak in to my bathroom/bedroom/kitchen/facebook for surveillance purposes. I am a free citizen and I expect freedom. My sole purpose of the question was that we should understand the cultural bearers instead of bringing up conflicts. Criticism for the sake of criticism or violence for the sake of violence has no result but pain for both the parties.
xinyuren:
If you expect freedom, China may be the wrong place for you. Freedom is an illusion. If you are ruled by any government, you will not be free. In China, your movements and online actions are being monitored. Do not hold any allusions that you are "free". Enjoy your stay here, but don't hold out any hope that your expectations will be met. This forum is mainly for the purpose of releasing steam and holding thoughtful exchange. Our criticism of China, America, or anyone is just sharing our observations, nothing more. It is criticism for the sake of our peace of mind. There are no diplomats or statesmen here, so I don't understand your point.
thefidu881:
I agree with you upon that if we are ruled by governments we are not totally free, may be our perception of freedom also differ. Also may be I am feeling much more comfortable at China if compared to my stay at UK. Like I said our perceptions and expectations may differ but I am a critic of wars as I have seen the destruction brought by wars and conflicts resulting mass destruction. Anyhow thanks to you and all respectable members for sharing their views though some think of me as 'wumao' which I still don't have any idea of.
Englteachted:
"My question is why we are up to the matters arising conflict and of controversial nature?"
That nonsensical statement has Chinese written all over it. Gave me scary flashbacks of correcting essays.
coineineagh:
This too: "We have the right to discuss events from our lives but if we are really up to things we are not going to digest then there is only one question left, why am I here?" Either he's translating thoughts along with Pakistani expressions that define his logical reasoning, or it's just a wumao facade. Also, use more commas.
thefidu881:
@coin
I can feel which of your part is burning ;) I have no interest in criticism for the sake of criticism but you seem very fond of it. I can call you 'Dollass' ilol, if you call me 'wumao''. I am here for fun and learning not for money but you seem to be under immense economic pressure keeping you in a place you dislike the most. Regards
coineineagh:
You keep re-using the expression "criticism for the sake of criticism", which is funny since that's a great way to summarize this whole question thread you started. As for your sneer about being under economic pressure: I come from a culture that values hard work, and I DON'T feel shame in having to work hard. But here in China, being economically weak is a vulnerability that powerful people will take advantage of like schoolyard bullies. You incorrectly assume this to be a universal truth, but outside China people are different. You just betrayed your lack of values with that tasteless comment about my finances, and now I'm even more convinced than ever that you're just a facade for a Chinese wumao. "I am here for fun and learning" - what a crock.
Some expatriates have been here for quite a while now, and have seen the situation change very rapidly.
The country isn't what it was back a few years ago. China used to be a flawed yet promising place where improvement was expected on many levels. A booming economy was hoped to put millions out of misery while opening up to more exchanges and freedom. In a word, China's growth was seen to go in a Hong Kong way, and if I'm certainly not saying the picture was ideal, it was optimistic. You can refer to all the newspaper back then, or even this website. The mood was very different.
Reality took a whole other turn. The country has become instead a dystopian authoritarian state where people are not allowed to be anything more than disposable consuming units with limited freedom to do anything. Everything that was not strictly and directly beneficial to the economy has been severely shut down, restricted, or manipulated. Cultural life is dead. Individual initiative is suspicious. Happiness is quantified to the size of your car and apartment. From an expatriate perspective, this is not a country of opportunity anymore, and everything has been and is still being done to make it very clear they are not especially welcomed unless they have money to be squeezed out. Medias are breeding fear, hate or contempt of the outside, making sure that unfriendliness can be seen on the ground. From a local perspective, well, there is facade optimism because it's hardcoded anyway, but in the facts, the dream of everyone is to get a ticket out. Middle classes still hardly exist. People sure got more money, but don't have any time or even simply the education to enjoy it anyway since it gets sucked back either from demanding families, astronomical costs of every simple thing such as edible food or livable houses, or simply the absence of anything remotely sophisticated to be enjoyed. Environment, safety, everything is degrading very fast with very little to compensate. Urban planning goes from insufficient to brutally unfriendly for the sake of easier control. A few years back, endless construction sites everywhere could be hoped to have some planning, purpose and find an end someday. But it just kept going on and on without necessity and mostly out of uncontrolled speculation, making many places look more and more like Mordor-style wastelands.
Overall, many aspects of China used to look like imperfect but heading for the best, when it turned out they were designed not to change at all or failed to do so. So I can understand why many people are disappointed. It all is sadly disappointing.
coineineagh:
I second that motion. Very insightful. Words of experience, condensing decades of observations into a single post. UPVOTE THIS!
Visco8:
Yes, very well said indeed, I think it echoes the sentiments of long term expats here, it certainly does for me, again well said.
May I add one further point ?
When I used to go back to Aust. some years ago, some of my family & friends would express concern over China's build up of power & their ultimate aim.
I strongly allayed those fears, stating that historically China wasn't expansionist or a bully.
Am sorry to say, that I may have been wrong...
royceH:
Yes, you were wrong. China is, these days at least, very definitely a big fat bully boy.
Fair dinkum, name a country that China actually likes !
DrMonkey:
@royceH Actually, from what I gather, China is quite popular in Pakistan, and vice-versa.
Eorthisio:
Best post ever, exactly how I observed China changes along the years. This should be made an article.
Great, a wordy form of "if you don't like it here, then leave". Perhaps that would be best, but I have kids here. Maybe I can strike a deal with the CCP that they give me a lifelong ban from this stinkhole? Then maybe my own government will let my wife and kids in, because we'd be banned from living together in China. You sound like a wumao, thefidu881, can you make it happen for me?
As a more serious response, permit me a blatant copy-paste of one of my old comments: "There are some good things about China, yes, but let the Chinese sing the praises of the good side. They're better at it than we are: any boss/leader in China will have staff singing the praises of every little accomplishment, purposely omitting all the corruption and incompetence. If you had a TRULY positive attitude, you'd snap out of this happy happy joy joy bubble of yours and help others to face reality. I can't talk to people in China about problems, because foreign suggestions are unwelcome. If you call attention to *problems*, no matter how politely or positively, it will be followed by an extreme neuralgic reaction. So, socially conscious people vent online. Foreigners here, Chinese on QQ. Don't try to muzzle the people who focus on the negatives: They are the driving force for change and improvement. Praise will make no difference."
thefidu881:
I would simply answer you this way,' You are extremely terrified by NSAs(s =there could be more than NSA so be aware :) ). I have no idea of what 'wumao' is? So sorry for your disappointment.
coineineagh:
FYI, I'm British/Dutch, left-aligned politically, and was always extremely vocal and critical of America. That was until I came to China. The Romans brought aquaducts, sanitation and writing to subjugated people. The Americans introduce democracy and western trade. The Chinese are only interested in monopolizing their profits. baidu is full of ads with no actual content, hospitals are most likely to keep you sick for your money, and the government are a bunch of bullies shaking down poor people. there is no fairness, and people only understand laws as: "a bureaucrat gets a hongbao". American occupation would be a liberation for these people. Sadly it will never happen.
xinyuren:
I do not back occupation as I am apolitical, but look what the British did for Hong Kong. The mainland could use a good dose of "civilizing".
thefidu881:
Well! may be Chinese government is not delivering what people expect her to. But your statement is justifying occupation of a country by another country which is strictly against the charter of UN. Secondly, my question still is lurking for an answer which is what liberation America brought to the people of Afghanistan and Middle East? If liberation to US is killing the people then I must say China is my favorite being a peaceful country towards the world. I would prefer living poorly instead of being killed. It reminds me the famous quote from 'Heart Of Darkness' by Joseph Conrad which is, "Exterminate all the BRUTES".
xinyuren:
agreed. occupation is not the answer. It almost always causes more problems and animosity than it solves. Each country has to find it's own way. China has a long and painful road ahead. Your question about America and the Middle East may go unanswered. This forum is about China.
coineineagh:
And you fail to understand that the CCP is the political inheritor of Mao Zedong, the biggest killer in world history. the nanjing massacre is infinitesimally small compared to what he did in his own country. The estimates of the people who died (mostly of starvation) during the Cultural Revolution range from 30-45 million. He starved his own countrymen to pay off debts, in a poorly-thought-through attempt to forge steel for modernization (it mostly resulted in pig iron stockpiles, because the farmers dragged off their fields knew nothing of making steel, and weren't given proper instructions or equipment). THAT'S why everyone here is terrified of voicing dissent: nobody wants to be part of the outgroup - they starve to death in China. No foreign invader has ever killed as many people as "glorious leader". Given China's baby-killing history, I question whether they are even capable of creating a fair society for modern people to live in.
royceH:
Hey Coin, old mate and most enjoyable poster, take it easy. You still live here.
And I think the figure is closer to 80 million.
coineineagh:
You know we all have a BCD sometimes. I get really sick of the unapologetic 'monitoring' by locals in every aspect of my life. So, sometimes I just want to DARE them to kick me out of this place, the smelly buttcrack of our planet. Thanks for correcting me on the figures, though. I wouldn't want 40 million deaths to go unmentioned; I'm not from the CCP.
As to your question I would say that they matter because we are here within the country/system. We can't be idle or unresponsive. That's life, look at nature (e.g., ecosystems) but as to some of your replies to why are we looking/pointing at the country/government versus individual actions, and many responses are 'because of the government.' Is because it is true, look at the history (and the main reason I am posting is to say this in regards to how government actions effect/change human behaviour).
-Great Leap Forward
-Cultural Revolution
-Three/Five-antis campaigns
-Anti-Rightist Movement
-Four Clean ups(another late political movement to get rid of political opponents around 63-66)
-There are many other like the land reform one in the early 50's but these are few I selected.
People were referring to Mao as the next emperor, it was narrative/story that the people were use to. There was this hope or idea of a 'people's republic', but you can see how long those communal kitchens lasted (i.e., not long). If you didn't say things were great you could be labeled an anti-rightist, if you had the biggest house or largest land you would be considered a tuhao (mao wrote about these ppl, not the current term meaning someone rich with no class) or capitalist and lose it all. If you had anything old in your house you had to get rid of it because it was considered reactionary and the older it was the more reactionary (e.g., puppets, heirlooms, antiques, cultural objects, etc).
Times in the past when if you spoke up, or out, or against, or even the truth you were killed, beaten, tortured. If you didn't lie you would die, and then later after everyone was like 'oh fishsticks' why did this happen or what went wrong (e.g., great leap forward), you would get in trouble for lieing! So damned if you do and damned if you don't. Titles of two good books are Tombstone and China Witness.
It's a sad history of people being beaten down and will continue until people realize we are all in this together and not separate.
If you want to know about western authoritarianism there is a book from Eric Fromm called Escape From Freedom.
"All wars are civil wars, because all men are brothers."
-Francois Fenelon
God , someone is a moron if they think someone should be a guest in their own home. If someone owns a home here how the fuck should they be considered guest? I don't own property, but I work here legally. That means I have a "resident's permit". Paid mouthpieces should at the very least have a basic level of English so that they can understand what the word "Resident" means. More proof of the racist mindset.
And by the way, even guests have skin in the game. Because they are here!
thefidu881:
Well! I would suggest you to have a beer or some ice at least to ease down your pile problem before using such derogatory words. I have been clarifying all the time and I never mentioned anywhere that can be taken as an offense. I know the meaning of 'Residence Permit' very well so please don't impose your sluggish English on me. My father served UN for 20 years and I had valid documents but still I was interrogated at Heathrow Airport for 45 minutes just because my name carried the meaning,'one who scarify in the name of God' according to the officer. So please don't teach me about racism and discriminations. There are flaws everywhere but you seem deterrent to accept your flaws rather accuse others for your flaws. Take a shower, cool down and go through all my comments. I don't want to beat the dead horse again and again. Thanks
Englteachted:
Are you implying that I overlook the flaws, of western countries? Read my posts. Read anyone else's posts. You could tell the mouthpieces from their BS, it is the same. "If you point out the flaws in China, you are overlooking the flaws in your home country" Even if your previous 15 posts were about the problems in your home country. Your story about the Heathrow airport, you are free to complain about it to whoever you want in the UK, however you want. Do you understand? Can you comprehend that? You could submit an editorial, rent a billboard, go to the UK's version of the ACLU and any other public way you choose. Get it?
To the OP I want to hear your thoughts on China's massive rising civil unrest. Since China is doing better then the West. Yes the West has many faults, but I've chosen to deal with those faults then deal with the faults China has. I feel as China has so many more faults that's its so lazy, and incompetent to fix, then the West combined. For example, China tries hard to handle its civil disturbances. I.E. The Kunming attack. Or Changsha attack. Since I've left China, it seems like I'm reading a new mass attack every 3 days. And Chinese people say well in a country of 1 billion plus, it's normal. Okay. But when Kunming kills 30+ and injures 140 or so. Then the Changsha one kills a few. Then the Bus fire wherever that was, killed 33 or so,etching, these little events add up. No?
As far as censorship is concerned, my read true fear in China was that I would reckon half of these events are covered up, and not reported. Something can happen ten blocks down and not covered. It's thanks to sites like this that people keep up with the daily atrocities that's take place.
I understand what the OP is saying. However, I do not agree that we don't/can't do anything to make changes. For progress to take place, we must embrace change. To imply that it's none of our business is being naive and irresponsible. You are an English teacher, so are you saying that you are here just to teach English and nothing else? As a teacher, you should also be teaching the next generation of movers and shakers, no? Don't you also feel that you are here to contribute to the host country? You owe them this much if they've accepted you to teach as a Foreign Expert. Does this policy trouble you? So, are we in a position to make changes? Of course we are! A little at a time, we will see changes. I first visited China in 1994. The changes within those 20 years has been tremendous in many aspects. Perhaps this may be your first time in China, as such you may have only seen China from where you are now. I can only say that we as foreigners working here whether as teachers or any job owe a duty of care to the very people who accepted us to help (for the lack of a better word) in making progress, no matter how little each of us may contribute. If you align your thoughts in this direction, then perhaps you may be more inclined to feel that you too, have your part to play instead of standing on the sidelines and be silent and passive.
thefidu881:
I really appreciate your approach towards the matter and in fact I expected the same from other friends but the topic was derailed from the context unfortunately. Conclusive criticism leads to positive changed in the society and we shall continue our struggle for that no matter where are we and to where we belong? I respect each member and their comments for I am learning a lot from their experience. I didn't intend to bully people over here or to make it controversial.
xinyuren:
If you are talking about foreigners making changes in China, you are speaking for a hopeless cause. China will change things in China's way on China's time scale. The little bit of foreigners here can do little to change that. This is an Asian characteristic. It's the same way in Japan. In spite of the many problems there in regards to their aging population, they still greatly restrict integration and foreign influence. Eastern Asian culture is still quite xenophobic. We are a drop in the ocean here. Do not waste your time thinking you can change things.
sorrel:
‘Education is not the filling of a pail, but the lighting of a fire’
This topic is a copy and paste, I'm down voting you, hahaha
