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Q: I have a debate with Gouxiong.
First of all he told me men do not care about women's look. You agree? I disagree. I think if there are two women matches you perfectly in personality,you will go for the better looking one.
Secondly,Gouxiong told he would consider to not choose hot woman to be wife for reducing risks for losing her. I disagree. I think a man should not worry about losing his good looking wife,instead he should treat his wife good and try to not worry. If he worries too much about losing her and act insecure,he may turns himself to be insane and unattractive and she may really leaves him for a better man she feels more comfortable with.
Gouxiong just likes arguing for the sake of arguing. I met many people like him.
You will be like... "Oh, it's a sunny day."
And he will be like... "I wouldn't call it sunny, there are clouds and one is blocking the sun and I am sure it will rain."
Then you are like... "STFU Gouxiong!"
xinyuren:
LOL, it's more like, "i don't know why some people are always judgmental about the sun in China. Why get so upset about it? In Europe (where my hometown is), it rains, snows, and hails. the weather is free to do as it pleases. Why do people have so much to say about what the sun does? China is doing better than the Americans."
Strawberry66:
I do not see gouxiong is that suck. But suck on certain things still. He is cool sometimes. I still like him.
gouxiong:
Well Robk,
I do not think you get it right.
I just need to admit that I am to certain extent disturbed by certain foreigners who for some strange reason like to come to this webpage in numbers. They usually willingly came to China, reject to learn anything about the country and its people behavior but aggressively ventilate their frustration.
Some of them are real whiners who should probably do the best to return back home to their loved ones and some would do themselves a favor if they would get rid of bigger part of their arrogance.
Normally I would not care at all when we would not be in the same country and if the people of this country would not judge me also depending based on these, to certain extent problematic, guys behavior.
I was trying my best to explain them that they are first of all harming themselves by their absolutely irrational approach but I agree that I was a bit naive - probably there is no way to let them realize how stupid is their arrogant and ignorant behavior and how they just make the Chinese around them laugh (may be with exception of their girlfriends who either really like them or just successfully pretend that).
I admit I was supposed to know better. For instance one notorious whiner wrote half page story describing why he assumes Chinese are bad just because one guy greeted him in broken English and did not recognize his perfect Chinese (which unfortunately does not allow him to explain how the fish shall be prepared but he assumes it's still almost flawless ...). The guy is so clever that he even does not realize the paradox ...(as many others do not).
Or the girl who blames her landlord for mistreatment and therefore openly plans stealing and secretly damaging her landlord property - not realizing she is then much worse than the person she is describing and I honestly hope she either did not do it (because otherwise the police shall trace her and deport her after some time in Chinese jail ...).
Fair enough. It's like it is and probably no way to change anytime soon.
Well this all has nothing to do with the discussion I had with strawberry when I tried to explain her a culture difference in selecting a partner in the west in comparison to the Asia.
Honestly I was also supposed to know better - it's a bit similar like when demanding from some Westerners in here to at least try to understand that big part of Chinese people behavior is dictated by the environment and usually has a reason. It looks to be exceeding these people mental abilities - in the past majority of colonial superpowers called all the ingenious people 'savages' - apparently many of the foreigners here still has this past in them.
Never mind - the person is learning every day :)
Strawberry66:
All men cares about women's look,it's the nature. Its not cultural diffrence. I understand people"s behavior is ditacted by the enviroment but it does not mean those behaviors are good. And considering risk of marrying hot woman is the mentally sickness of insecure man,which its not good to keep woman. You are smart on certain things I agree but you are not that smart as you think. At those topic we just discussed,you do not sound smart.
gouxiong:
Oh, Strawberry,
You are mixing too many things up ...
I never said I would not marry a pretty girl. I was just commenting on your theory - you were saying that marrying pretty one or ugly one has the same consequences except of their appearance. I was just telling you that in case you are right and look matters so much then there are consequences of it ...
But never mind :)
I agree that it's everyone's own business how he/she sets up the criteria for partner selection.
You select your boyfriend as per your best wish.
I really do not mind how anyone selects his/her partner - totally up to them and your opinion cannot be wrong - just others may have different approach - and you can or does not have to believe me but partner selection criteria is highly influenced by your culture (but of course also by your personality), because it's based on the set of values which in different cultures may differ a bit ...
And the best proof that there are huge culture differences are majority of the guys on this site who find it so difficult to live in here and accept China as it is ...
Strawberry66:
Gouxiong you said that men should consider risk of marrying a hot woman. I have your wechat messages as proof. It sucks,really. I throught you are condident,but you are not. I hate insecure men. I am fed up enough with my American ex already. Btw,pretty women does not mean she must be hot enough. Usually pretty and hot are not in the same level.
"Secondly,Gouxiong told he would consider to not choose hot woman to be wife for reducing risks for losing her."
Same with plenty of girls. I know a physically striking air-stewardess marrying an exceptionally ugly man, not particularly rich. When asked, 'why on earth did you marry him?' (anyone who has met her husband is bound to ask that question) she replied, "he is so ugly no other girl would look at him, he would never divorce me, if there is a divorce, I would be the one dumping him".
The truth is, highly educated guys prefer highly educated girls who are independant, just like themselves. 
Sinobear:
"Air stewardesses"...ahem, "Flight attendants." Do you need to be forced to watch 'Anger Management?'
jetfire9000:
So if this turns into a common way of thinking, then it will bring about a certain paradox. The only thing an ugly guy has to offer is that he's so ugly nobody else will want him - a type of loyalty that isn't based on morality, but on harsh reality. Yet if more people begin following this overly simplistic way of thinking, then the ugly guy will all the sudden become desirable by everybody - making his ugliness irrelevant in the sense of loyalty it offered before. Problems of morals (disloyalty) are best solved by teaching that addresses that realm of thought, not by some function that changes with the tides of popular thought.
earthizen:
Do you need to be forced to get an education? 'Flight attendants or cabin crew (also known as stewards/stewardesses, air hosts/hostesses, cabin attendants) are members of an aircrew employed by airlines primarily to ensure the safety and comfort of passengers aboard commercial flights, on select business jet aircraft,[1] and on some military aircraft.[2]"
Strawberry66:
ahahahaha....I am happened to be the independant one among Chinese girls. I have been living alone for couple of years. My Chinese female friends often asked me help them with this and that which they can do themselves. I used to tell my ex to not pick me up for saving his 30rmb taxi fees which I can just take a taxi to go to his place by myself in Ningbo. I do not like burdening people with things I can do myself or burden friends finnacially when I visit them. I value independant,unfortunately it is uncommom in Chinese society.
Sinobear:
@Earthizen: not picking a fight with you, just making a cultural reference. P.S. I created two of China Southern Airlines courses, taught at GCAC for over six years, so, if you can bring your personal airline experience to the table, we can then have a qualified pissing contest!
earthizen:
Not a problem. Air stewardess (as opposed to yacht stewardess) or flight attendant is equally acceptable to me. Soochoowadesu may have an added layer of meaning but not because of culture per se, it has more to do with their significant drop in pay in the last decade. PRC may have its soochoowadesu manual but that's one manual they won't let anyone write, same as the Japanese.
earthizen:
earthizen:
@jetfire Good follow through thinking. Yup, many sheep on this spaceball.
Strawberry66:
@earthizen,I have been living on my own for couple of years and know life isn't easy for everyone. I choose to not burden people if possible. Not all girls would understand as they may not live a life likes me. I do not make compromise for certain things,I just seek for a man to accept them. Sometimes I do think I am so cool :) When you are indepedant,for sure you will be more free to seek for the person and things you like.
Strawberry66:
@earthize,I did not help with every unecessary things friends asked me to do.I agree with you on that. Saving my engry for my own life.
earthizen:
@Strawberry You probably know this, I'm writing this just to be on the safe side.
Strawberry66:
Haha...I know that. I am not attracted to the typical Chinese race. You may know I am attracted to white men. I always look for a guy who's a bit similar to me to be with but he does not need to be the same.
laowaigentleman:
Putting jewels in them to pay for government favours is a nice representation of mainland Chinese culture.
Strawberry66:
I am only talking about race,nothing else. Typical Chinese mean the typical Chinese looking. I am attracted to white race. Oh,my,white men are so hot in my eyes. Light skin,deep set eyes,taller,reallt better looking. Lots of people call women who do not like typical eastern Asian looking men and black men racist. Those people are being childish to say it.
earthizen:
@Strawberry Great, I was just thinking of asking you why you like "white-people". Can you trace why you like that kind of appearance, maybe say, after watching a movie/TV series...etc.?
Strawberry66:
Since the day I saw white men on TV when I was a teenager girl. I wanted a white man from a long time ago. I even have no interest to look at Chinese men. And lots of Chinese men are begging my love but I can not
earthizen:
Long thread so I shortened it. No way to get lost! So you never had a local chinese boyfriend?
Vicky:
1. Gouxiong's writing is contrived and dishonest. He uses language to distort and obfuscate, not to understand or elucidate reality.
2. Of course men care how women look, but most of us care about intellect or personality more.
3. With all that said, I find shallow, needy people preferable to dishonest ones.
Strawberry66:
Everyone cares look,just some people care personalty more than looks,some care looks more.
Gouxiong just likes arguing for the sake of arguing. I met many people like him.
You will be like... "Oh, it's a sunny day."
And he will be like... "I wouldn't call it sunny, there are clouds and one is blocking the sun and I am sure it will rain."
Then you are like... "STFU Gouxiong!"
xinyuren:
LOL, it's more like, "i don't know why some people are always judgmental about the sun in China. Why get so upset about it? In Europe (where my hometown is), it rains, snows, and hails. the weather is free to do as it pleases. Why do people have so much to say about what the sun does? China is doing better than the Americans."
Strawberry66:
I do not see gouxiong is that suck. But suck on certain things still. He is cool sometimes. I still like him.
gouxiong:
Well Robk,
I do not think you get it right.
I just need to admit that I am to certain extent disturbed by certain foreigners who for some strange reason like to come to this webpage in numbers. They usually willingly came to China, reject to learn anything about the country and its people behavior but aggressively ventilate their frustration.
Some of them are real whiners who should probably do the best to return back home to their loved ones and some would do themselves a favor if they would get rid of bigger part of their arrogance.
Normally I would not care at all when we would not be in the same country and if the people of this country would not judge me also depending based on these, to certain extent problematic, guys behavior.
I was trying my best to explain them that they are first of all harming themselves by their absolutely irrational approach but I agree that I was a bit naive - probably there is no way to let them realize how stupid is their arrogant and ignorant behavior and how they just make the Chinese around them laugh (may be with exception of their girlfriends who either really like them or just successfully pretend that).
I admit I was supposed to know better. For instance one notorious whiner wrote half page story describing why he assumes Chinese are bad just because one guy greeted him in broken English and did not recognize his perfect Chinese (which unfortunately does not allow him to explain how the fish shall be prepared but he assumes it's still almost flawless ...). The guy is so clever that he even does not realize the paradox ...(as many others do not).
Or the girl who blames her landlord for mistreatment and therefore openly plans stealing and secretly damaging her landlord property - not realizing she is then much worse than the person she is describing and I honestly hope she either did not do it (because otherwise the police shall trace her and deport her after some time in Chinese jail ...).
Fair enough. It's like it is and probably no way to change anytime soon.
Well this all has nothing to do with the discussion I had with strawberry when I tried to explain her a culture difference in selecting a partner in the west in comparison to the Asia.
Honestly I was also supposed to know better - it's a bit similar like when demanding from some Westerners in here to at least try to understand that big part of Chinese people behavior is dictated by the environment and usually has a reason. It looks to be exceeding these people mental abilities - in the past majority of colonial superpowers called all the ingenious people 'savages' - apparently many of the foreigners here still has this past in them.
Never mind - the person is learning every day :)
Strawberry66:
All men cares about women's look,it's the nature. Its not cultural diffrence. I understand people"s behavior is ditacted by the enviroment but it does not mean those behaviors are good. And considering risk of marrying hot woman is the mentally sickness of insecure man,which its not good to keep woman. You are smart on certain things I agree but you are not that smart as you think. At those topic we just discussed,you do not sound smart.
gouxiong:
Oh, Strawberry,
You are mixing too many things up ...
I never said I would not marry a pretty girl. I was just commenting on your theory - you were saying that marrying pretty one or ugly one has the same consequences except of their appearance. I was just telling you that in case you are right and look matters so much then there are consequences of it ...
But never mind :)
I agree that it's everyone's own business how he/she sets up the criteria for partner selection.
You select your boyfriend as per your best wish.
I really do not mind how anyone selects his/her partner - totally up to them and your opinion cannot be wrong - just others may have different approach - and you can or does not have to believe me but partner selection criteria is highly influenced by your culture (but of course also by your personality), because it's based on the set of values which in different cultures may differ a bit ...
And the best proof that there are huge culture differences are majority of the guys on this site who find it so difficult to live in here and accept China as it is ...
Strawberry66:
Gouxiong you said that men should consider risk of marrying a hot woman. I have your wechat messages as proof. It sucks,really. I throught you are condident,but you are not. I hate insecure men. I am fed up enough with my American ex already. Btw,pretty women does not mean she must be hot enough. Usually pretty and hot are not in the same level.
Hahahahaha. If Guoxiong doesn't care about women's looks, then why would he bother to choose an ugly looking woman as his wife? Why can't he simply pick a woman dispite her looks? Of course he cares about women's looks. He's lying. LIAR!!!
Strawberry66:
He is lying to himself. He does not realize it I guess. He is insecure with a hot woman.
thefidu881:
Where do you get all these images...? amazing collection dude.
diverdude1:
actually it's totally simple. maybe u r a bit like me,,, pre-computer generation? anyway, just go to any search engine and enter the term 'demotivational posters'. but be warned! they are funny and can lead to great loss of time scrolling thru them~ :-p
thefidu881:
Not really rather in 20s but having read too much Wordsworth's philosophy has lead me to take a bail on the society for a while. thanks by the way.
I quite like the relevance of the images with the topic and your selection no doubt is great. 
diverdude1:
hehe... well, thx. 
I do it so some members might get a smile and a laugh sometimes and maybe a nice break from what can sometimes be a too serious discussion. some say this board is only for serious china-related Q&A, but I feel it has evolved into a bit of a Social Board and I for one am glad that it has.
royceH:
It's blocked for me.
But you have given me a thought re your comment about this thing evolving into a social board.
I've just read a great piece of writing from PG Wodehouse and I think I'll wrangle it into a question so as to share it with my ecc mates.
Ta.
diverdude1:
well, the internet is a strange beast... I have no idea why some can see images and some cannot. It's like why can my Mail program get my gmail emails,,, but I cannot open gmail directly?
I have no VPN. gave up on tunnelblick, even though I don't think there was anything wrong with it,, just my internet is tooooo damn slow up here in BFE Shandong.
royceH:
I'm sure the reason for me is that I'm in Xinjiang, a 'special place'.
And as for you, I think you're wrong. You live in Guangzhou, don't you? But maybe I'm wrong and you do live in Shandong. That's ok.
diverdude1:
I had been living in Guangdong until about 6 months ago,,, now in Shandong. I spent a year in GZ, but nearly 5 in SZ. I intend to return to Guangdong,, Shandong too old-fashioned. I would like to try Xinjiang sometime though... can a guy have a beer in Urumuqi w/out being bothered?
Wow, Alot of fireworks on this one. Oozing in emotion...
Is it just me or guoxiong and earthizen's writing is exactly the same? ...Condescending! 
There is one point about gouxiong argument that I agree with: The consequences of marrying a beautiful girl is different from that of marrying an ugly one. I dated beautiful girls (lingerie model and a Miss China contestant) and plain girls (not ugly). I preferred the plain girls. Most of the beautiful girls were too invested in their own selves. Too self centered, took too long to get ready to go out and go to bed, and were higher maintenance. Once more, under the makeup, there wasn't that big a gap between the beautiful girls and the plain ones. Not to mentioned beautiful girls are mostly likely to believe the world should revolve around them (because it often does). My conclusion that most beautiful girls in China aren't suitable for marriage (at least for me). It's not that they are too difficult to keep, but simply not worth the pain. Beauty queens are great for short term dating, but I will take the plain girl home to mama.
On the other hand, there are some "plain" girls in China who don't realize their beauty. They don't quite fit Chinese society's narrow classification of beauty. This is the rare gem in China. Not so rare, actually. They have all the benefits of a beauty queen, but none of the typical drawbacks.
*edit - I should say most of the benefits. oftentimes, these girls don't know much about makeup, fashion, or take that extra step in personal grooming but these things can be taught.
Shining_brow:
But the problem with some of those 'plain but beautiful" girls is their lack of confidence... and that can get pretty tedious after a while. Especially when it keeps going into low self-esteem issues. I find it It quite frustrating to tell a girl she's beautiful (when she really is), and have her reject it because she doesn't think she is... which may lead to insecurity and jealousy.
(of course, it also annoys me when women think that the men have to do ALL the chasing... and can't even be bothered to make a phonecall or send a message - cos that's what the guy has to do (until officially a couple))
