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Posts: 2240

Shifu

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Q: Is it necessary to buy a book for studing some advanced English grammar?

I am starting to read and watch BBC news to improve my English recently as I am challenging myself for a high English level. But I come across with some understanding problem of some English grammar. Not a lot,just don't understand a few of them. So actually I am considering of buying a grammar book for studing. The thing is I am not sure if it's necessary to do it as I can speak and write good Chinese even though I don't know much about Chinese grammar. Chinese is my official language. 

 

I would like to get some advices from some native English speakers. Thanks. And happy Chinese New Year to  those expats in China.

 

8 years 13 weeks ago in  General  - China

 
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Because i am in a festive mood I will give you an honest answer.

 

Forget grammar. Obsessing about grammar is only necessary for passing exams in China. It is seldom you will come across anyone with flawless grammar and no one cares.

 

Recent studies in linguistics indicate that learning grammar is counter productive when learning a new language.

 

They say learn lots of vocabulary and some basic lexical chunks, speak more and the grammar will take care of itself. Thank you scumbag brain.

Shining_brow:

References!

 

You're not talking about Krashen (burn) are you? And any of his ilk?

 

Please see my post below :)

8 years 13 weeks ago
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Personally I wouldn't recommend buying a book on grammar as a means to improve your English, I'd just do more reading, watching movies and speaking if I were you. Studying car mechanics doesn't make you a better driver.

Viki87:

Reading,listening news,watch movies are all I am doing now. 

8 years 13 weeks ago
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mArtiAn:

Your English is good, maybe better than my Chinese and I've been studying for over ten years whilst living in China. Study grammar if you want, it can't hurt. I think the most important thing is to not be afraid of making mistakes and having people make fun of you, and you put up with so much on this forum that I don't think that's a problem. Keep at it.

8 years 13 weeks ago
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Viki87:

My English is just ok for daily usage and business. But it upsets me when comes to read some articles involves in literature,econome,politicals,travel,phylosophy.etc. I realized that I don't know a lot of vacabularous and some grammar. I feel ashamed of myself as an English major.

 

I feel the passion for wanting to learn this language well. I love this challenge. Maybe I will want to write some articles in English one day and publish it or being a part time English teacher or something. I am not sure I will do that but still I love that challenge for learning English. Even though my main interest lays on business.

 

8 years 13 weeks ago
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ambivalentmace:

http://www.breakingnewsenglish.com/1602/160208-interpreters.html

using www.breakingnewsenglish.com for improving your vocabulary, they have various topics, you use it for listening or reading, speed reading, you can set the story at a higher level for academic vocabulary, if you not lazy like of most of useless rich kid students the site is very helpful, you can even set the speaker narrative from american to british english.

8 years 12 weeks ago
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Because i am in a festive mood I will give you an honest answer.

 

Forget grammar. Obsessing about grammar is only necessary for passing exams in China. It is seldom you will come across anyone with flawless grammar and no one cares.

 

Recent studies in linguistics indicate that learning grammar is counter productive when learning a new language.

 

They say learn lots of vocabulary and some basic lexical chunks, speak more and the grammar will take care of itself. Thank you scumbag brain.

Shining_brow:

References!

 

You're not talking about Krashen (burn) are you? And any of his ilk?

 

Please see my post below :)

8 years 13 weeks ago
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Your English is terrible, so it couldn't hurt. 

Viki87:

Where is terrible of my English? Spider

8 years 13 weeks ago
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Englteachted:

She has to be joking.

8 years 13 weeks ago
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Shining_brow:

"Where is terrible of my English? Spider"

 

That actually made me LOL! :p

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there are plenty of english learning free websites to help with grammar, especially with a vpn, that would help much more than a book, even sample grammar tests to help you improve your grammar.

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8 years 13 weeks ago
 
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Shifu

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I suggest using a very useful app. You can get it at www.foxcon.com.cn

Viki87:

When I enter it,it saies my domain is registered sucessfully. Then there's nothing else left for me to continue. What's wrong with it?

8 years 13 weeks ago
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Lord_hanson:

Wow you actually followed the link. I was making fun of a new user who is advertising on this website.

8 years 13 weeks ago
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Viki87:

Wtf,did I get scammed? I hope it won't affect my personal security to follow your damn stupid link.  lord_hanson. You know what? You just aren't the quality can be trusted.

8 years 13 weeks ago
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Lord_hanson:

What is the world coming to. If you can't trust random people on the internet who can you trust.

8 years 13 weeks ago
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Viki87:

Because you are full of shit.

8 years 13 weeks ago
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Lord_hanson:

Karma is a bitch, serves you right for wasting everyones time with fake questions. You just went along with a fake answer. Happy New Year, dumbass.

8 years 12 weeks ago
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8 years 13 weeks ago
 
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i will say that your English is one of your better traits
forget about the grammar and work on the understanding of some of the phrases we use and the only way you will get any good at it will be living in the overseas environment and as you have watching English programs.
when you don't understand a phrase , write it down and look it up
a lot of it will be sarcasm but it will give you a insite into our world
now do us a favor and post more questions like this and not that other rubbish

ambivalentmace:

for english idioms and phrases, www.teacherjoe.us

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Yes.

 

Buy a good grammar book! (note the word 'good'). (though, obviously, there are websites available as well).

 

But don't 'study' it!

 

When you get a piece of grammar you don't understand - look it up and get the meaning behind it!

 

Contrary to some of the 'recent research' (and hypotheses), other research has found that students who actually know the grammar involved make fewer mistakes (in both meaning and structure) as those who don't.

 

However (and this is what iWolf was referring to) - the grammar translation method (which is the method most language learners were using for decades before better methods came out... ) sucks as a teaching method! Not only is it boring, but unless you're confident with your own grammatical system (you said you're not), then it's not very effective - not for real language usage.

 

Grammar IS meaning!

 

(also note what Phil said above - we use sarcasm a lot. So, watching TV and understanding the grammar won't mean you actually get what they're trying to say. So - don't take everything literally - literally Tongue)

 

(ps - yes, I can provide references Tongue)

Shining_brow:

Add-it ;p: Oh, you're not using the book to learn English - but to understand the correct meaning of a grammatical form.

 

Right now, you NEED to focus on improving your BASIC grammar. You're still using a LOT of incorrect grammatical structures and word formations, so we are having to try to understand what you are writing.

 

Trust me - you would get horribly depressed if all of your mistakes were pointed out.

 

BUT... trying and making mistakes is MUCH better than not bothering to try at all.

 

Also - one of the problems for people who try to attain fluency is - they make mistakes, but no-one bothers to correct them ("It's ok - I know what you mean" doesn't actually help!)  Apparently, I was saying 'washing washing' for months before someone pointed it out! 洗洗 - 谢谢)

8 years 13 weeks ago
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Viki87:

Any good grammar book to recommend?

I don't find it effective to look up the translated version of Chinese when learning English. 

I prefer looking up the English translation version of the words for a better understanding. Some Chinese translation don't actually seem match the words very well.

Thanks for this good advice.

 

8 years 13 weeks ago
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Viki87:

You can point them out. I am frustration now,but better than many chinese who thinks their English is good by having good English certificates.

8 years 13 weeks ago
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Viki87:

You can point them out. I am frustration now,but better than many chinese who thinks their English is good by having good English certificates.

8 years 13 weeks ago
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Viki87:

You can point them out. I am frustration now,but better than many chinese who thinks their English is good by having good English certificates.

8 years 13 weeks ago
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Viki87:

You can point them out. I am frustration now,but better than many chinese who thinks their English is good by having good English certificates.

8 years 13 weeks ago
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Shining_brow:

Very few Chinese have 'good' English certificates! Anything that is Chinese (mainland) for English education isn't worth much. That is, standards are very low here, and do not represent language use.

 

I gave you some tips in my post below. Also - use of adjectives to describe feelings. '-ed'.

 

As well as the basic Subject-Verb Agreement. Does the number of subjects = the verb used? (this is basic grammar!)

8 years 12 weeks ago
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ambivalentmace:

vicki, i dont know the name of the grammar book, but when i get back to my prison, i mean my school, i will send you the name of the book. in the linguistics world of elites they say its the grammar bible, to me its just another elite limey that is stuck on himself, i bought the book at an english book store in beijing, its the best sleep remedy i have at night.

8 years 12 weeks ago
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Shining_brow:

"Advanced Grammar in Use" by Harding?? It's the only one I can think of that is 'elite' as well as famed.

 

Viki - http://www.eslgold.com/grammar/textbooks.html

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at least a quarter of your sentences should be enshrined on posters and submitted to engrish.com
"When I enter it,it saies my domain is registered sucessfully. Then there's nothing else left for me to continue. What's wrong with it?" - erm, gramatically?
"You just aren't the quality can be trusted" - but he likes to have a funny to double happiness!
"studing", heh.
"I am frustration now." oh my, you have no idea!

just a bit of harmless fun at your expense. honestly, foreigners won't hold non-native speakers to exacting standards. try to remember that next time foreigners have a chuckle when you accidentally drop a sexual euphemism. they still respect you fine, so no need to get worked up about a mistake. small language mistakes are not failures, and nobody thinks you are dumb because of how you say things.
…It's because of WHAT you say! zzing! he kicks he scores!

grammar is overrated. focus on speaking without an accent. westerners are highly tolerant for grammatical errors, so your concern and shame are misplaced.

actually, your lack of punctuation is more annoying than grammar errors. get a feel for when to use commas.

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@Viki - if you're an English major then you should feel ashamed! (Granted, so should most English majors that I've met here).

 

If we compare your English (as a person who has studied the language for at least 8 years - including the last 3-4 solely) to people from other countries who have done the same, the difference is HUGE!

 

But - that's (at least partly) not your fault (and, of course, it partly is!) The education here sucks! Your teachers' English is not much better than yours. They have not been overseas. And many of them rarely used English to have full, meaningful conversations with native speakers of the language. They were also assessed to Chinese standards - which suck!

 

I suspect your knowledge of grammar is much better than most 'Foreign Experts' who have come here to teach it. But your use is not.

 

You say you watch English movies and TV (don't all students do that?) - but how exactly do you USE that to improve your English? Please give specific examples...  If you're going to use TV and movies - set a specific target or goal! Eg - choose a specific grammatical structure, and listen for how it's used. Or, what are some ways of talking about the weather?

 

I'd actually suggest (as I've done in my IELTS video series - http://www.xteam.cc/special/topics/1450328624812_36.html) you to watch TED videos, and also do some Khan's Academy courses. The English will be focused. So, if you're focussing on weather, you'll have weather specific terminology.

 

You also need to NOTICE THE DIFFERENCE between what YOU write/say, and what native speakers write/say. ALWAYS presume their's is correct, while if yours is different, it's yours that probably needs changing! (of course, we make mistakes (especially when typing fast, or thinking of ideas as we express them), and we don't always use full correct grammar on forums! But then - we usually know what we DON'T need to say/write to still get the meaning across).

 

What Coin says about focus on grammar being over-rated, and we're more tolerant of mistakes - that's mostly true - unless it impedes meaning! If I'm getting confused by what you're saying, then 'grammatical tolerance' will be low.

 

Also - check your spelling!

 

'Advice' is singular. 'Vocabulary' is (usually) singular. Given how often those two words are used, yes, it's shameful to be getting them wrong so often!

 

Your first grammar focus - 'do' and 'be' - how to use them correctly! As well as the basic forms of Present Simple, Past Simple, and Present Continuous - form/structure and use.

Viki87:

I am ashamed.

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Shifu

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Is there any language Studing progamme to apply in English speaking countries?

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Shifu

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Thank you for those good advices. I really appreciate. I had been lazy to carry out my plans.

 

This year I will be a new me. I made a list of my goals wanted to be achieved and I am organizing myself with discipline to make consistent progress to achieve them.

 

You will see me less active to chat on ecc.

 

Spiderboenz:

Good luck!

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Viki87:

Thank you. Spider.

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I think it depends on how you learn best Vicky. For some, going through a grammar book might be the best way. For others English immersion - that is listening to and speaking English everyday will be better.

 

Personally, I think you would be better watching English movies/TV, reading books  and paying attention to how people say things instead of reading a grammar book.

 

I've met some amazing English speakers who have never lived outside of China. A few could easily pass as being born in North America. Usually they hang out with foreigners, watch a LOT of TV and are able to pay attention and learn from what they hear. I don't know you but suspect this would be your strength.

 

Anyway, good luck with it.

 

 

Viki87:

I improved a lot by hanging out with foreigners,dating foreigners and working for foreign companies. Most foreigners(both native English speakers and non native English speakers)say that my English speaking is good and asked if I have ever lived in overseas. But some native speakers told that some of my pronounciation are not correct and some grammar is wrong. I think it depends on what lever they are refering my oral English to.

 

My English accent is the mixture of American and Chinese.

 

I don't have much problem when comes to daily conversation,probally because people are more tend to use less complicated words.

 

But I realized that I don't have enough vacabularous and don't understand some sentence instructure(I suspect it's grammar issue but not entirely sure) when I was reading BBC NEWS articles.

I suspect the good Chinese English speakers who practiced English just through movies and by hanging out with foreigners have a good understanding of BBC news.

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