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Sign up with Google Sign up with FacebookQ: Is it really possible to support a family in China without an expat-package job?
Earning 18k atm. Gf earning half. We're thinking of starting a family here in China, but really wondering whether we'd not be better off living elsewhere. Neither of us are working for foreign companies
So... is it possible (or wise), as an expat, without the full expat package, not working for a foreign firm, to start and support a family in China?
12 years 30 weeks ago in Family & Kids - China
If you both teach English at a school, then I'd say it's definitely possible. However, a better question would not be if you can, but if you want to. When starting a family you should think about the culture, the school system, food, etc. If you're only going to stay here a few years, then it will be fine. But once you decide to raise a child, there are many more things to consider than just money.
If you both teach English at a school, then I'd say it's definitely possible. However, a better question would not be if you can, but if you want to. When starting a family you should think about the culture, the school system, food, etc. If you're only going to stay here a few years, then it will be fine. But once you decide to raise a child, there are many more things to consider than just money.
I hope you will not rely on a forum post to decide whether you start a family or not
DaBen:
What are you talking about, a group of faceless strangers on the internet is the best source to make any big life decision. They would always keep your best interest in mind and never lead you down a wrong path. And they can do it with barely an knowledge of the subject and your personal situation. Plus the internet never lies.
You can get an idea (not necessarily make a decision) based on my own situation.
I am married with a Chinese and we have a 1.5 year-old child. My wife works and her gross revenue is around 20K RMB. With this new social security legislation (not only Foreigners are concerned by the new regulations, Chinese too), the social cotisations previoulsy paid part by her and part by the company (600 RMB and 1500 RMB) have now entirely up to my wife to be paid (around 3000 RMB). So we are working with a revenue of around 15K. What do you need to consider in your budget then:
1) rental fees (either you move every year, or there are lots of chances, that your landlord increases the rent on an anual basis), and when you have a child, you just accept the increase to avoid all the hassles of moving out and in.
2) food : basic food for you, and you try to buy what you may consider the safest food for your baby, which means no local powder milk or baby food products....
3) diapers (local brand are really shit even Pampers, so you need to buy either a Japanese brand or imported Huggies)
4) feeding bottles (you can buy the one here, but generally, you will tend to buy the one labelled BPA free, which are safer but also more expensive)
5) clothing for you child are extremely expensive here in China, so it's either you get everything imported, get to pay the full price, or take second-hand clothes.
6) toys, games for your child are also expensive compare to for instance US.
7) activities with your child : since in you're in a country, where children is a gold mine for companies, everything you want to do is expensive (playground, swimming, etc)....
So in our situation, we don't have ayi, I handle the child by myself, cook for him and we use imported powder milk, rice powder and porridge from Australia. We didn't want (I mainly) the Chinese in-laws to live with us or to take care of the child...
To sum up, yes you can have a child with your local salary, but I advised to look for a better job considering also the costs of delivery in China and other medical fees, health insurance for your child, etc... I used some of my own savings to make the situation a bit easier. So here, you basically survive, not really live, especially as a foreigner.
RoobyRod:
I think you've just discouraged anyone reading from ever having kids
Dagobah:
Yeah wow, your life kinda sucks man... it cant be that bad surely.
Scandinavian:
just a comment on the rental fees. Our landlord has actually lowered our rental fee. during the first year we lived in the apartment prices in the area dropped and apartments that came up for rent was getting lower. we do however pay less than the area average (we live high up with a view, but pay what unfurnished apartments in the lower floors cost) I am aware that in many cases one is a the bad end of negotiation when the rental contract runs out, but most landlords will also appreciate stability, and our landlord says we are such a nice couple, I am here thinking the underlying meaning is that we are only two people living in an apartment that had it been Chinese living here, it would have been including at least one set of grandparents. Less wear and tear on the property.
It depens on which city you are living and what kind of life you want.
I see some normal chinese families, 5K per month, with a kid, they survive and they are happy. In laws are taking care of the kid. Frankly speaking, a lot of chinese families are in this situation.
So 18K plus 9K is definitly enough to survive. While you cannot expect a good life(good resto, vacation out of the country...) especially if you live in big city like BJ and SH.
You can make it, however it depends on the lifestyle you wish to maintain.
Sure, if both of them are foreigners, they will be perfectly happy with 5K to live....Ouuups,
1) those Chinese families living with 5K are very happy, they are the first one to get concerned when another powder milk scandal comes out, because their low revenues make them use the cheapest powder milk....providing their child is not part of the one who died because of a cheap powder milk with melanine or other fake diary products.
2) those Chinese families living with 5K are very happy, when one of the family member makes the line at 2-3 am so that the next day, s/he can get a number to see a doctor
3) those Chinese families living with 5K are very happy, especially when the woman has to deliver, she does it in a local Chinese hospital with 4-5 other women at the same time. So very happy, to have 4-5 women screaming at the same time...indeed
4) those Chinese families living with 5K are very happy, when the woman, after she has delivered, has to live in a common room with four other women, never being able to rest as people always come around, or hear other's baby crying, etc.
5) those Chinese families living with 5K are very happy, when they can't buy diapers for their children and rely on the old fashioned way
6) those Chinese families living with 5K are very happy, when they can hardly manage to buy other diary products for their child,
7) those Chinese families living with 5K are very happy, when they can't bring their child to a park or an indoor playground because it's too expensive for them
8) those Chinese families living with 5K are very happy, when they cannot do all the proper vaccination, because some vaccines are too expensive
9) those Chinese families living with 5K are very happy, when their child is sick and they have again to wake up very early in the morning in order to get a number at the hospital and have their child checked.
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Sure in-laws take care of them....how the do it. Very often, in-laws were also raised by their own grand-parents, so they have no idea how to raise a child, what to cook.....they are like some American giving coca-cola or potato chips to their one year child....How many times, I see other grand-parents with children the same age as mine, giving them some candies or bretzel to eat....
Ice_anna, providing you're a western mother, I propose that you try to live this life with 4-5K/a month, then you tell me how you feel....
It's not my experience, but a friend's experience and I have seen it with my eyes, and they had a revenue over 10k per month.
The foreigners here are always so impressed with their salaries, but really -- the chinese have it better than us - they have friends and families that will support them to the end, financially.
6K WILL not support a family. 10K could, but you'll be on dead end survival mode.
20k+ it'll start to get a little comfortrable.
Enougth is never enougth,love and showing your child right from wrong are things that can not be bought, 27000 is a small fortune which should see you have a really comfartable life
Yes... some guys above are right.
Why some people (families) can survive with 5K per month,
and others can't with 18 plus 9Ks??
Of course, local are local...
Foreigner are foreigner...
BUT: maybe is time to think accordinly with the place
where you still living....
Here are China know?!
So, ENJOY!......
You're going to have to give up alot of the commodities and luxuries you probably purchase now and enjoy as a self supporting guy.
But sure isn't having a child the greatest commodity of all?
As long as you're willing to sacrifice!
If you're asking can you live the same lifestyle you're currently living now - NO.
Kids will change your world.
Amazing.
Even sensible (and responsible) questions are getting thumbed down?
Well I am British and my wife is Chinese, I work she doesn't,(at least she doesn't bring in any money), we have a two year old daughter.
I earn 6k RMB a month net. I also have earnings from the UK of 11K RMB of which we import 8k a month.
We own an apartment - 4k a month mortgage
Food - 1.5k a month including all the fruit
imported milk - 100Kuai a month at 20Kuai a carton
Electricity average 400Kuai a month
Cleaner once a week all afternoon 1pm - 5pm 400 Kuai a month
You can see that doesn't leave any room for luxuries, when we used nappies (diapers) we used pampers but the ones in the yellow packaging, (premium or some similar name) we brought our own baby food from the UK (our daughter was 6 weeks old when we left UK) we used SMA and posted enough to last us a year then ordered some more via britishcornershops.co.uk (other internet shops are available).
Clothes we still get online much cheaper than in the shops and my wife seems to find good quality. My wife gets her clothes online to, I don't buy many clothes less than 1k a year on clothes for me.
I don't eat western food, (I've had two pizzas in the last 12 months and that is all the western food I've eaten), we eat out about 7 or 8 times a year and I go out for a drink about twice a month, I go to Chinese bars for which the entire night will cost about 70Kuai or I go to a pool hall and the beer and pool will cost 100Kua each. If I'm not working the next day I'll have 4 large beers we get for 31kuai a crate (of 9)
I'm in the process of negotiating a salary increase (things are looking good, should sign on Tuesday) and that will help, my father-in-law has helped my wife set up a small business which we hope will start to return a profit in about another 12months. That will be useful as my daughter starts Kindergarten next year and that'll cost 1200 a month.
We have been lucky with no serious illnesses, although my daughter has had ALL her inoculations and we have always paid for genuine imported drugs. We don't have medical insurance but pay cash for any illnesses. We will put our daughter in a Chinese school when she is old enough but we will leave China when she is 11 and ready to go to high school as we aren't willing to put her through Chinese high school and Gaokao exams plus as a British Citizen she can get cheaper UK university education so long as she goes to a UK school, (that's an over simplification).
So can it be done on your salary? Absolutely.
Do you want to do it? I don't know, how important to you is having a family?
paulmartin:
Good answer,we sound like were in a similar position,but my daughter is 5 next month,i also pay 1200 a month for nursery,but i have a little boy 6 months old as well,so i have had too take a second job on weekends,i make 12,000 a month which is more than enougth to see us through every month and we can save a lot as well,dont have a morgage luckily,will also go back too the uk when my daughter is 12 same reasons as you
From my own experience, I think NO way...
I'm not working in a foreign company or something, either my wife (my wife is a Korean house wife and i have a beautiful and lovely daughter she is just 13 months now ) but I manage to make around 12k RMB a month in a part time job (I have to study also).
These are my expenses every month :
(The apartment rent - (Gaz - water - electricity ) - Diapers (imported Huggies) - Clothes (some of them are imported) - milk (imported) - fruit (every day. My wife have an unhealthy situation, she absorbed most of the vitamins from fruits) - Feeding bottles (imported) - Activities, like going out tow times a month to a Western restaurant or Korean restaurant) - Hospital fee - Transportation fee - Phone fee (IP card included) - Internet fee - Some other unexpected fee like, Fixing something (in my case sometimes it will be my E-bike or my laptop or my iPad... (i have hard time keeping them safe if I got angry ))...
To us living with 5k a months it will be really really low budget. I don't think we can make it in here. but that just me, i don't know about you... good luck body
Yeah it's possible be a little more optimistic! You are so....negative!
A thing not mentioned too much here is, "saving up for old age", probably worth putting aside some thousands per month for that.
You can raise a family successfully on 5k just as well as 12k or 20k. It really depends on your priorities. If you stay away from the big cities, 5k is enough to start a family and if you have 12k, you can save for the future. In Shanghai or Beijing (any big city), of course you will need more.
In the end, money is rarely the limiting factor.
you can live in grass hut and have rice paddy, need no money. still be happy.
Well, Chinese people do it all the time. An expat package ain't needed though. I made about 27,000 a month and my wife made about 4,000 kuai and we had a nice apartment and without even budgeting managed to save more than 12,000 kuai a month.
Our combined income was your average salary for a young middle class couple in Canada, it was about $60,000 a year and the average combined income is $70,000. But, being in China it was like we were making $130,000 in Canada. So bear in mind that.