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Q: should we just stop saying negative things about china?
do chinese who read this site's postings think all foreigners share the same opinion or have the same critique?
does pointing out perceived flaws make you a bad guest?
i have sat with russian, french people in america as they criticized americas gun culture. i never felt insulted and my coworker who actually disagreed with them pointed out why he thought the gun culture was ok. no one cried, no one felt insulted.
i have my own personal experience to back up my claim that chinese people who read this site understand that this is just individual people talking.
Yes, comrade, we should all stop saying negative things about absolutely everything and anyone. We should all wear rose-coloured glasses and sit and discuss only the weather, the good things that we'll be doing for our communities today, and why people on (anonymous) forums should 1) Purchase a sense of humour and 2) grow a pair (even the women).
Why does everything have to get personal? Relax...none of this will matter 12 hours from now.
I'm going to respond nicely and hope that this does not start another flame war.
In answer to the main question, NO, you don't need to stop saying negative things about China, especially if it is 'just' venting. However, when doing so I respectfully ask you to consider the following:
1. Unless you genuinely mean ALL of China or ALL Chinese limit your complaint to those it is aimed at by using 'some' or 'most' or 'a few' or some appropriate expression.
2. Try and offer some constructive alternative.
3. Avoid lines like 'the streets are like sewers', unless of course you genuinely think that the streets of wherever you are talking about have open running streams of raw sewage, and even then see request 1 above.
4. If it is 'just' a rant, let us know, perhaps by ending (end of rant), we cannot hear your tone or intonation, so what is obvious to you as you type is not obvious to us.
The above was posted without ANY attempt at hostility and I hope it is received in the same manner.
crimochina:
wait so when talking about china i should follow your guidelines. but when talking about any other country i could do it ant way i please. i must list the specfic instances and people who i saw act like a bunch of retards just to get on a bus (i don't have that many pens and notebooks). i must spefically state an alternative. how about like not doing said bad behavior.
No, when you put it like that I think it's perfectly alright to say what you think. I mean, most of the complaints I see on here are of things I find pretty easy to understand the root of, and so am able to see past them myself, and it's also not generally my way to make complaints as a guest somewhere, i'm more inclined to simply leave a place if I find it so unfavourable. It's only when you say stuff like (quote) "i went out today as i often do. into the abyss of spit , shit and piss" that I feel like you're painting a picture that is not accurate of the truth and may cause great offense to Chinese members of this site, and so I feel obliged to speak up on it.
Considering that we ourselves often times mention "the bad" about our hometowns, and about other countries and religions, why should China be an exception?
As for myself, I do strive for balance and objectivity, not sure if I am successful at it, but I do try. And, well, once in a while we have a bad day which if we are feeling homesick or going through some culture shock, it can even turn into a BCD. If we cannot get sympathy or understanding here, then where else could we go?
GuilinRaf:
I think we should all have a nice pint of (insert favorite beer here) tonight. Hopefully we can get this out of our system and move on. That at least, is what I plan to do...
Happy weekend to all!
lokethebloke:
You crafty bugger, the second one will be bigger as more people turn up!!
I'm going to offer a word to you guys for consideration. EMPATHY. Chinese people are part of the human race. The human race shares common ancestors. We react similarly when exposed to the same stimuli. Nobody is innately inferior. I have no problem saying negative things about anyone as long as I understand the cause. When we post negative things, we are venting at the affects. Do we care to understand what caused it? What happened to these people to make them behave this way? Before I rail against anyone, I try to understand their history. It probably won't change my opinion, but it will probably blunt the edge of my sword. China is a country in flux. It drives me crazy, too. But empathy helps me not to lose my mind and sometimes it helps me to keep my mouth shut.
mArtiAn:
Wow, yours truly is the intelligent voice of reason. A thousand thumbs up.
Hugh.G.Rection:
What he said!
Thank you xinyuren, in one succinct post you have said what I have been trying to say to Crimo for months! I can only hope he reads it and understands.
xinyuren:
Funny. Last time I posted similar words about a year ago and was almost blown out of this forum with people calling me a Chinese sympathizer, as if they were the enemy. It was a different crowd then, I guess. Anyways, we all need to vent, but lets educate ourselves a little along the way. Thanks for the thumbs up.
crimochina:
hugh g : you have been saying stop saying bad things about china you are making everyone think all expats believe the same. stop saying rude things about china that is being rude to the host country.
and i am very well aware as to what the cause of all the problems are, state sponsored ignorance.
very well stated xinyu
People are just so greedy and like to see nice things always,But impossible,at the same time,people wanna complain when they see bad things. like China,no doubt,we get a lot of things to learn from western countries and people there, but at the same time,We have good things that other people want to learn too,maybe not many.
No country is perfect and they all have their own problems,more or less ,Like the US,the gun culture ,I am not a fan of it at all,I can not imagine if I made someone so angry ,Probably he will just shoot me .So scary. lol
and Australia,the public transportation sucks there especially in Sydney. I am not going to complain about it. All I can do is,accept it. If you can not handle the problems you are facing now,,Maybe time to move to somewhere else.Cause It's their culture ,their business which You can not change on your own.
crimochina:
thank you maggie. if you complained about the public transportation in aus only a moron would say you are being a rude guest. people would agree with you or disagree with you.
LAR:
"I can................................ lol." TYPICAL ORIENTAL ARROGANT comment. Why don't YOU go ef yourself? You're also ethnocentric and condenscending.
crimochina:
lar : why not argue against her point?
maggie: when i posted earlier i misread your post (thanks Baileys) if you were in sydny and you complained or pointed out some flaws in the public transp sys, that is well within your right. if anyone were to call you a racist they would expose themselves as moronic. principled belief, i apply that to everyone.
how do you think change happens? it starts with people talking about it. if you want things to stay the same say nothing and have no expectations.
here is a perfect example. you are married you will have a child(or already have). first you will set expectations for your child (before you can go anywhere you need a direction). and if you see your child going off course would you keep quiet or would you say something. your child you want the best for them? you country, you want the best for it? like it or not i'm not a guest here, i've been living here for a few years. i will live here for a few more years. this is my home for the time being, i want to see china at it's best. just the say as i do the usa, i critique them both when necessary and i praise them both when necessary.
mArtiAn:
Lar, your response is as vitriolic (my new word) as ever. Just awful. Really. And Crimo.....not looking for a fight here, honestly, but 'Baileys'? Really? Dude...add some whiskey...make it a drink. I mean, shit....at least chew some wine gums with it or something.
maggiegirly:
LAR,I am sorry to hear that.
I do think my comment is alright, all i did is,just be honest.
Come on,everyone has different views in things,Why can not you accept it?
as i said,i am not going to complain about it if things are not like what I expected.
Take it easy,Man
CrimoChina, sorry to say that ,Even the second time you did not read my post properly, As I said,I AM NOT GOING TO COMPLAIN ABOUT IT when I see bad things.cause It happens. and I have a right to speak things out right? like you guys talk about everything,including China,I'd be happy to read different infomation.of course,I'd like to see the good changes,like the public transportation in Sydney,Hope they can catch Tokyo or Guangzhou soon. I'd say again,No country is perfect.
Martian,Thanks for teaching me a new word"Vitriolic",Love it.
and I enjoyed your post.
crimochina:
mags i know no country but does that mean we should stop pursuing perfection just stop making advancements? stop making improvements? either way it is nice to have an intelligent back and forth with you.
\marty : i am who i say i am. therefore i do not need to look to see which drink is popular and claim it as my drink. you claim to be british but you brag about drinking Jack. please no one tell him.
Haha, you know what makes me laugh? It's that this question comes about because a small minority of the users here choose to disagree with some of the more negative comments made on this site. Jeez, what do you want, for everyone to just blindly nod in agreement? As for whether the 'harmony of this little online community' is disturbed by such disagreements, well that's a terrible shame. I don't come on here to troll but this is also not the only community i'm a part of. I moved to China 7 years ago and am now a member of the Chinese community. I chat with the locals in the off license when I go there in the morning to buy beer, or the girl in the local bakery I visit every day, or the off license I visit, or the market, or the off license, and in all these places i'm greeted warmly, nobody ever spits or takes a piss or is rude to me or insults me, so i'm not going to come on here and agree with every post I see. Many negative criticisms I ignore or agree with. But venting or otherwise I am often going to say, in one way or another, that 'I disagree'. Jesus. that's fair enough, isn't it?
When I stop seeing insane xenophobic drivel in State Media and on blogs, I'll stop.
mArtiAn:
I agree, but the state media is not representative of the people of China but a tool to manipulate them, and should be hounded at every turn when seen to be doing so unjustly (Haha, i'm gonna wake up in a sack tomorrow). And independent blogs are just that, independent; every country has those who wish to tarnish the masses of (wherever) with an unfavourable brush.
No, but we should look in the mirror now and again. Short and to the point answer that most people can understand.
mArtiAn:
I understand it, an' i'm.....well...kin'a stoopit. Reckon the rest of these lot can too.
The forum and website is "free" to express anything people want to express.
The question made mentions the word "negative", then it means crimochina's perception of what some people express here is negative. Each person has different reasons to post here their opinions and I don't doubt some of them use the site to relieve some of the stress or bad moments caused by the locals.
I think 2 main points should be considered here: free of speech and tolerance and of course xinyuren is damn right.
Crimo,
"Should.................China?" NO, ABSOLUTELY NOT!!! I don't give a flying **** what the Chinese think. As GR so aptly said, why should there be an exception for them? :( * The bottom line is that Chine-aaaaaaggggghhhhhh (Not all Chinese as some are very kind and warm-hearted.) shows a lack of
respect,civility,understanding,empathy,maturity and tolerance for foreign expats. * I don't care what the Chinese APOLOGISTS,Chinese,etc. say. * There's an excuse for EVERYTHING in this country..no matter how disrespectful,offensive,ill-mannered or unkind towards foreign expats WHICH IS INEXCUSEABLE AND BULLSHIT!
crimochina:
loke: (lar i'm gonna post my reply to loke here because his post will soon collapse)
\
"Crimo,
"Should.................China?" NO, ABSOLUTELY NOT!!! I don't give a flying **** what the Chinese think. As GR so aptly said, why should there be an exception for them? :( * The bottom line is that Chine-aaaaaaggggghhhhhh (Not all Chinese as some are very kind and warm-hearted.) shows a lack of
respect,civility,understanding,empathy,maturity and tolerance for foreign expats. * I don't care what the Chinese APOLOGISTS,Chinese,etc. say. * There's an excuse for EVERYTHING in this country..no matter how disrespectful,offensive,ill-mannered or unkind towards foreign expats WHICH IS INEXCUSEABLE AND BULLSHIT!"
what is wrong with lar's post? loke you just make a silly response without addressing any of the points he made. why not offer an argument against what he said ? he even took the time to say not all chinese. (which is not necessary when generalizing because the very definition of generalization states that it i not true in all cases)
here is why wumaos are easy to pick out. there are no principles behind what you post. just empty rhetoric. even when there is an easy logical argument to be made you can't make a logical argument. you often resort to attacking the poster without even addressing the issue. example, on one of my post you could not muster an argument to counter mine so you said something about my incorrect grammar and the hiring of incompetent teachers. which is actually funny because my students always rave about how much useful info i have taught them. and what does posting on an informal internet forum have to do with the classroom? sadly many chinese do not understand context. this English is informal not formal. i'm not going to take the time to proof read my typing. and it is pretty normal to see mistakes on internet forums. non chinese are not obsessed with trying to be perfect. (but you do not know anything about that)
LAR:
Crimo, props to you regarding your comments and support. :) I appreciate it. "Silly posts" indeed! ..um..I'll add stupid too! (Yeah,incorrect grammar,incompetent teachers blah blah..just ignore it Crimo..lame,tired nonsense! * lokebitch also disrespectfully brought up my family some time ago in one of his anal retorts..UNNECESSARY and HIGHLY IMPROPER! :( F****** A******! :( PUTO!!!!!!! :(
Wow, I'll never have to post again. This bloke has just confirmed what I've been saying for weeks, I don't think that I've got a mirror big enough. The sad thing is , there will be others who agree with him.
It's getting late, seeing and hitting double. Sorry.
Bullshit, you all the same, a bunch of pigs!
giadrosich:
"You're" all the same. It's a contraction of "you are." Just trying to help out. 
The words "Politically Correct" should be banned from China because this country needs the truth more than any I other I have seen in my 74 years on this planet.
