Hugh.G.Rection:

I cannot comment on the Chinese in Canada but in the UK they are well known for being amongst the most welcome immigrants, due to their work ethic and the most likely to integrate.

There really is only one 'China town' in the UK (in London) and that is in reality a business area, almost no-one lives there. The Chinese are in Birmingham is in reality one corner (just off the New Bull Ring) and again is just a business area),

nevermind:

Huge, I said nothing about who is and isn't welcome. However, in Vancouver there are three Chinatowns. Hong Kong and Taiwan people stick to Richmond, mainlanders to metrotown and old Vancouver Chinese to Chinatown, they won't even mix with each other. And a quick internet serach revealed numerous Chinatowns in the UK, London and Manchester are of note.

Hugh.G.Rection:

Nevermind the difference is I've been to those UK 'China towns' I don't need to do an internet search, and as I said, they are Chinese business districts and almost no-one lives there. The Chinese who work there are all quite well integrated into mainstream British society. Also as I pointed out, London apart, the China town in Birmingham is one street corner that includes two small supermarkets, two bakeries, a lawyers office and two restaurants, hardly a 'town'.

Trust me, I used to go there every weekend, indeed it was how I was introduced to my wife.

nevermind:

I find it hard to believe the 3rd largest Chinatown in Europe has no residents. 

Hugh.G.Rection:

The third largest Chinatown in Europe, i.e. London, is three streets, each about 500yds long, just off Leicester Square in central London, one of the highest priced property areas in Europe. All of the buildings are at most three floors (and sometimes an attic) high

1. Do you think you could get all of London's Chinese community in there?

2. Only the extremely wealthy could afford to live there, and even if they wanted to why would someone with that level of wealth want to live above a supermarket or a restaurant, because as I've said, whether you believe it or not, in that entire district there is not one single house, the only accommodation would be in flats above the businesses and the rent for that area would be well over £2000 per month!

I don't doubt your knowledge of the Chinese communities in Canada, please trust me on my knowledge of the Chinese communities in the UK.

nevermind:

From what I'm reading Manchester is the third largest in Europe, not london. But I already digressed, I'm talking about Chinese communities. 

Hugh.G.Rection:

The Chinese communities in the UK are pretty much spread all over the UK. Famously there is at least one Chinese take away / restaurant in every town and city in the entire UK. Of course similar people often live close together but unlike almost any other ethnic group in the UK the Chinese don't typically cluster together to live. As I've said they are the most integrated of all the immigrant communities, heck even the BNP (the racist neo-nazi political party) grudgingly praise the British Chinese. Now of course there are going to be some exceptions, you cannot talk in such generalisations without there being some, but in the main, in the UK, they are well integrated.

nevermind:

That's rare, most places that is not the case. 

Hugh.G.Rection:

Oh I know that's rare. In the UK we have huge and growing problems with racism and those problems aren't helped by the tendency of other immigrant communities to 'ghettoise' themselves by living close together in small areas. The Pakistani / Indian and Arab communities are particularly guilty of this but other communities are almost as bad. And yes, I realise it can be a case of the chicken and the egg as the racism pushes the communities together (for protection) and the separation encourages racism.

kchur:

Heh, greater Victoria area, pop ~500k, has about five distinct China towns. Much bigger Calgary has a small China town, a big China town, and a Chinese street running from the northern edge of the city into downtown. There are at least four small towns in southern Alberta with Chinatowns. Keep in mind, though, we have cities where over 40% of the population reports themselves as Chinese. With those kinds of numbers it's easier not to assimilate.

Hugh.G.Rection:

Have you seen how much work school kids do in China? They are at school a lot longer than in the UK and they have a lot more homework and from my experience are, on average, much better at the basics of maths and science. When you add to that the fact that I will ensure my daughter doesn't cheat, then I think that will stand her in good stead for the more serious learning she will encounter when we return to the UK.

JungleLife:

Sure, the student work ethic is good. But what about other important things for kids at school? time for clubs,sports, better playgrounds, the air they breath, etc. These are things I would surely be thinking about too.

Hugh.G.Rection:

I agree Junglelife, and that's one of the reasons we will return to the UK when she's ready for high school, that and the quality of learning i.e. beyond the basics, creative / lateral thinking and reasoning abilities are what I hope she will get from a UK education to ready her for University.

JungleLife:

I wouldn't want my kids being brought up here(if I had any), but who knows what is the best in the end. A good balance of both could be great. Good luck.

981977405:

OK, that's great..now after all of that speech, just answer the question -- are you staying or leaving?

JungleLife:

Why is this guy so concerned about if we are leaving or staying. Look at his comments below. Is this info that wumaos can submit?

giadrosich:

@JungleLife: He collects all this info into his little journal. Look at his questions. Always wants to know way TMI. It gives him a sense of power and control.

Traveler:

Your question isn't relevant, especially as "this year" ends today. As you are aware, I am not in China. I am recovering from surgery, and celebrating Christmas, in Australia (no way I was going to have surgery or Christmas in China). So I can't stay or leave.

I will return and leave several times during next year (short visits are enough), until I decide on another country.

At the moment, I can capitalise on China, so it serves a purpose. When it no longer serves a purpose, I will find (literally) greener pastures. Not being Chinese, I have the choice of coming and going as I please.

981977405:

OK Ted, tell me please -- what is a Borg ancestor?

Traveler:

Borg are OK. At least, 7 of 9 is

TedDBayer:

Traveller, you stold my explaination 7 of 9 was a Borg. I wonderd what 9 of 9 looked like? Chinese must be the anchestors of The Borg Collective.

Traveler:

9 of 9 would have been super hot. 69 would have been better. Isn't it interesting how all the Borg used numbers instead of names?

TedDBayer:

181

Traveler:

181 is the metric conversion of 69?

mattsm84:

Hugh and Locutus had names. 

Traveler:

The Borg were banned in China, because they hurt the feelings of the Chinese people.

TedDBayer:

Too bad , Borg Breast Implants would be the first. I think that's how it starts

Traveler:

I sometimes wondered if Seven's private parts were mechanically enhanced...

TedDBayer:

Yes they were, they had mechanical arms that came out with whirling blades on them. Or was that 6 of 9? I now see how the Borg originate in China, breast implants gone wild. It also explains why the Borg are always sleeping at their rest stations.

Traveler:

I think you could be on to something here...

981977405:

Same for you Ted -- you're out of China now -- but do you plan to stay out of China this year or are you returning?  Leaving or staying?  That's the question.

TedDBayer:

You really like being confrontational 981. My plan was to come home and return to China last Sept. Delayed, been waiting months to see a knee surgeon, lots that I have to get done first. I'm not interested in being in China for another winter. I'll wait.

Traveler:

Anyway, Ted, do you think the Daleks could also be descendants of the Chinese, like the Borg?

TedDBayer:

no, the Daleks would have rational thinking, probably Russian by that name. I think the little grey aliens that keep popping up are Chinese from the future also. After the earth becomes exhausted of raw materials and is completely polluted, the majority of survivors will be Chinese, statistically because they have the biggest population. With the lack of sun, their skin will turn grey and their eyes will get big and round. They will adapt to eating mud as they eat anything now. They retain their small stature. E.T. go home = China.

981977405:

OK, what does "AMF" mean?  Are you leaving or staying?

giadrosich:

Your inability to comprehend an answer does not facilitate the necessity of me having to post the same information twice.

bill8899:

Philippine pesos? You can live in the Philippines for four years on $20,000? 

Nice to know. I hope you have a good time.

TedDBayer:

That didn't last 5 months for me in China.

981977405:

Re Bayer above, I think that we all know why....

TedDBayer:

because I have enough money to do and go any where I want

981977405:

Same as above, nice speeches, but just answer the question :  are you leaving or staying?

nevermind:

Don't answer this guys questions. Don't answer any of them. Just boycot him. 

981977405:

Nevermind, I realize that you only display four-or-five letter vulgarities, but for a native English speaker, your spelling is atrocious.

What is "boycot"?.  Is that on a cot on which your boy sits?

nevermind:

I don't respect you enough to double-check anything, you whelp. 

981977405:

Actually, I will happy to drive you to the airport, put you on a plane and send you back to your beloved small town in northern Saskatchewan.

JungleLife:

Is that where I am from?

JungleLife:

And like I said, you would be happy to drive all of us to the airport so that we can leave, why?, because you are envious.

981977405:

envious?  huh?  I have a passport that allows me to come and go as a I wish and with dignity.  Your answers are so childish and belittling most of the time.  What the French call "de la racaille".

JungleLife:

Wow, you have a passport to come and go as you wish. Congratulations. If you could get out of China and live in a place long-term with a better environment and have a better job than the one you have, you would, as most Chinese would. But obviously you can't, so you are bitter and envious toward others who can.

nevermind:

Though he's never left. Hey, 981, ever voted!? HAHHAHA

981977405:

nevermind, I am a registered Democrat in the City of New York, Borough of Manhattan.  When at home, I vote all the time -- straight Democrat -- Republicans are just too red-neck and like many around here.  I have not voted since I have been in China but I maintain my New York residency, so I vote there when I am at home.  1 Beekman Place, New York, New York, 10022-8057. I only voted Republican once and that was for Ronald Reagan.  Also just renewed my US Passport at the US Consulate in Shenyang.

mattsm84:

You have in a 3.5 million dollar co-op in Manhattan that you just stay at when your in town? No. I'm calling BS on this on. That's beyond ridiculous. That's "be nice to me because my wife just died" ridiculous. 

TedDBayer:

The most prestigious Beekman Place apartment building is, appropriately, One Beekman Place, which was designed by Sloan & Robertson and Corbett, Harrison & MacMurray and completed in 1929. Three Bedrooms from $10,500,000 (1 available apt- updated December 19, 2012)

981977405:

The Chicago Public School system -- great?  The Philadelphia Public School system -- great?  Both have been run with a great deal of enforced federal oversight these past several years.  Perhaps the schools in the (white) suburbs are great for sure, but then there are drug problems, gun problems (as we have seen), etc. etc. 

Yes, the largest American cities have great parks, I agree with you on that one, but these days for lack of funding, they are terribly ill-tended, overgrown with weeds.  Humboldt Park in Chicago for example is just littered with used hypodermic needles.  There are some great parks in Phillie for sure but whether they are safe to use for normal folk is another story.  Central Park is probably the exception but then again the other parks in the city really suffer...Fort Tryon Park in Washington Heights is just littered with needles and is full of criminal-types.  As I said, you are right as far as the lily white suburbs go.

Do expect, however, that your children will suffer from inherent in the States, particularly if you are in the nice white suburbs.  They will be referred to as the little Chinese children, etc., etc.

All the best on your trip home.

Nessquick:

matt, You have exactly copied my mind :-) Good luck, I will probably leave this year too.

kchur:

Well, 981, you managed to leave nearly a page of spam, mostly you beating on the same drum, but did it in a way that it's impossible for people to downvote and fold. Well played.

JungleLife:

You know you are right Matts, don't listen to 981977douchebag-that-nobody-likes.

mattsm84:

That's why I added the caveat "provided you don't send them to an inner city school." 

Do I think they will be the victim of racism? No, I don't. It isn't like here anyway where they would always be considered a foreigner, even if they were born here. They'll be considered American, both by their peers and certainly by the adults in charge of the place. They'll be a different color, but they'll all be a different color because I'll find a school district with the right amount of diversity. That's certainly possible. I went to school with a lot of Asian, Black and Hispanic students and they all did about as well as anyone else. I'm thinking St. Thersea's in Chinatown for grade school, because I'd like them to learn about their mother's culture while having the importance of rule of law drilled into them by cadre of postmenopausal lesbians in penguin outfits as their father did, then moving to Oak Park for HS, provided they don't test into the elite schools.  

nevermind:

Yeah, it's so horrible loads of wealthy Chinese are fleeing there!

981977405:

Look at this article in the New York Post about what wealthy Americans are doing:

http://www.nypost.com/p/news/business/more_citizens_vote_with_their_feet_CTshpQumBXMZmUXsfw6OTM

• By PAUL THARP
• Last Updated: 12:07 AM, June 25, 2012
• Posted: 10:53 PM, June 23, 2012

America’s rich are renouncing their citizenship at record levels — just to get richer.

Startling new data from Uncle Sam show that defections by Americans are expected to double this year, largely to avoid any stiff tax bills resulting from the proposed 55 percent hike on the rich — as well as the likely expiration on Dec. 31 of the Bush era tax cuts.

As many as 8,000 US citizens are projected by immigration officials to renounce in 2012, or about 154 a week, versus 3,805 in 2011, or about 73 per week.

“High-net-worth individuals are making decisions that having a US passport just isn’t worth the cost anymore,” said Jim Duggan, a lawyer at Duggan Bertsch, which specializes in protecting assets of the wealthy.

HASTA LA VISTA Renouncing citizenship.

“They’re able to do what they do from any place in the world, and they’re choosing to do it from places with much lower tax rates,” he said.

“Some are philosophically disgusted at the course our country is taking in all kinds of ways. They’re making a strong protest of, ‘Enough is enough,’ ” said Duggan. “But largely it’s an economic decision.”

There’s a catch to reaching tax nirvana. To renounce citizenship — and thus escape any future US taxes forever — a citizen must buy that unique freedom with a a one-time exit tax of 15 percent on the fair-market value of all assets — including real estate, securities, businesses and personal belongings — less their basis price.

“Many see it as a cheaper way to get out from under any tax liabilities on future wealth, while their assets have lower values during the weak economy,” he said.

The step before dumping citizenship is, of course, finding a new homeland and getting citizenship there.

Duggan said scores of tax-haven nations and island regimes around the world eagerly welcome disenchanted rich Yanks with quick citizenship, business deals and protections from the US Justice Department and the IRS.

Among the popular spots: Australia, Norway, Singapore, Cayman Islands, Costa Rica, Guernsey and Antigua.

There is one way to have your cake and eat it, too, Duggan said.

The US possessions in the Caribbean — St. Thomas, St. John and St. Croix — give a 90 percent tax credit to US citizens living there at least 183 days a year, resulting in an effective tax rate of just 3.5 percent, he said.

mattsm84:

You know, there is a big difference between leaving a country because you expect that its going to enact a different tax policy and leaving a country because  another can provide a better future for your family.

Nessquick:

seems he is all the day sticked with the internet and searching for statistics. do you have time to teach, 981 ?  

nevermind:

Um a bunch of ultra wealthy greedmongers renouncing citizenship for tax reasons is not the same as fleeing a corrupt, polluted nation with food that could kill you at every turn. And also, 8,000 in one year? Millionaire flee China at about 8,000 a day! HAHA 

Traveler:

A report by the Tax Justice Network (set up by British Parliament) in July 2012 showed that by the end of 2010, “the global super-rich elite had at least $21 trillion hidden in secret tax havens." This is equal to the GDPs of USA and Japan combined.

China ranked number one, having transferred US$1,189 billion abroad, accounting for 5% of the world’s total.

The report deals with tax evasion and calls on various countries to close tax loopholes. However, the report found that China is entirely a different case. The transfers have mainly been made by corrupt officials and their family members to hide their ill-gotten wealth.

The report shows that this is a global phenomena, not just in the USA. There is also a vast difference between the legal methods used by the people in the New York Post article, and the illegal methods used by corrupt Chinese officials.

http://www.taxjustice.net/cms/front_content.php?idcat=2

giadrosich:

When it comes down to it, family can't live your life for you. Enjoy yourself here, see some great sights, and "damn the torpedoes!"

thedude:

oops

Traveler:

Eventually you will turn 60. Age 60 = no health insurance. No health insurance = no job. No job = no visa. No visa means you get kicked out. Then you go back to your own country to start over at age 60. Good plan.

Tako:

Imagine how much i can save in 39 years.I think it will be enough to take care of myself when i go back to my country don't think?? 

Hugh.G.Rection:

You can pay for health insurance yourself or you can forego health insurance and pay for anything you need. Health insurance isn't a pre-condition for employment or a visa, although, obviously it is desirable.

981977405:

Actually, Traveler, no, the People's Insurance Company of China recently began offering medical and accident insurance to people over 60 through employers.  It was done at the behest of SAFEA Beijing.  It is in place.  We have several teachers in the city where I live who are over 60 and they are all covered under this 80% plan.

Traveler:

The age or getting health insurance doesn't really matter. The point is, one day you either will want to stop working, or no longer be able to work. No job = no visa = go home.

Hugh.G.Rection:

Not if you're married to a Chinese national, you can get a residence permit and visa without a job. There are a fair few 'retired' people out here, I remember chatting to one on a web site a couple of years ago before I came to China, also mArtiAn and I used to play pool with a retired American guy (he died this year), he was living happily without working. Indeed, before my daughter arrived that was my long term plan, (not anymore obviously).

Traveler:

OK. I'll stand corrected. You can stay here indefinitely if you can find an employer that doesn't practice age discrimination, and doesn't mind paying the higher premiums for an older worker. And the Chinese authorities agree to give you a visa at that age.

Or you can stay here indefinitely if you marry a local, and have enough money to live on for life, and don't mind the Chinese health and aged care systems, and have enough money to pay for all that as well. Do they have facilities for aged foreigners in China, should one need them?

I would think, given the low wages most foreign teachers get here, it would be quite hard to save for a long retirement. I also guess we are lucky in Australia that all Australians automatically get a reasonably high government pension for life at age 65, and 100% free health care after that age. Probably part of the reason I am biased towards retiring in my own country.

While Hugh said there are a few out there, for the large majority of foreigners, these aren't realistic options.

Traveler:

Hopefully, but too many things seem to go wrong in China.

xunliang:

OK, I guess i'll change my reply since you've changed yours

BHGAL:

SUPER BOWL  bound SEAHAWKS!!!!

nevermind:

Yeah, that's pretty cool. 

thedude:

I think they will beat Washington but as awesome as their home record is...their road record sucks...I will be rooting for them.   I hope when I get to China again I can find a site to watch them beat Atlanta in the conference semis...at least I get to see next weekend's game here at home on my awesome TV.

I think the last 5 wins have had an impact on their confidence.....GO HAWKS!!!!!!!!